Are the posted questions getting worse?

  • Does anyone else immediately think of the Monty Python skit every time they see or hear the word “spam”???

    Wonderful spam, marvelous spam.

    Michael L John
    If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
    To properly post on a forum:
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/

  • SSC is under massive attack from rogue travel agents 🙂

    Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können

  • Spam filter needs a kick it would seem

  • I have a fellow that's trying to resolve some performance issues in a HierarchyID-based table.  I just don't use HierarchyID because I've found or made better ways to work with hierarchies and so I need some help, please.

    Several years ago, I ran into an article somewhere that demonstrated how to cnvert a HierarchyID-based hierarchr back to adjacency list but I can't find that article nor any article on Google, Dusk-Duck-Go, or BING that even comes close.

    With that, do any of you good folks know how to do such a thing?  I think I might be able to help this person if we can do that.  Here's the link to the pertinent part of the thread of the person I'm trying to help.

    https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/lots-of-data-hierarchyid-performanceproblems#post-3993519

    Thank you for reading this whether you can help or not.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • Jeff Moden wrote:

    I have a fellow that's trying to resolve some performance issues in a HierarchyID-based table.  I just don't use HierarchyID because I've found or made better ways to work with hierarchies and so I need some help, please.

    Several years ago, I ran into an article somewhere that demonstrated how to cnvert a HierarchyID-based hierarchr back to adjacency list but I can't find that article nor any article on Google, Dusk-Duck-Go, or BING that even comes close.

    With that, do any of you good folks know how to do such a thing?  I think I might be able to help this person if we can do that.  Here's the link to the pertinent part of the thread of the person I'm trying to help.

    https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/lots-of-data-hierarchyid-performanceproblems#post-3993519

    Thank you for reading this whether you can help or not.

    About a year ago I posted a working example of hierarchyid based on an answer from Stack Overflow.  It's interesting and we looked at hierarchyid to see if it was useful.  At the time it seems like maybe I knew what I was doing but it's foggy now because I haven't used it since and it's not used it in any of my projects.  "Nested sets" can also be represented using JSON arrays.  My SQL script on that was published on SSC.  The +4 answer on Stack Overflow (from GMB (which is a fake account)) demonstrates the method you suggested to go from leaf to root.  My answer on SSC was based on Ben Thul's answer on SO.  Regarding the OP it's my understanding from your (Jeff's) initial questions the underlying data to redo the recursion(s) is not available.  That could be interesting to compare different methods but (surprise, surprise) no sample data provided.  Perhaps the query could be refactored to use GetAncestors which gets the "downline hierarchyids" (afaik) instead of GetDescendents.  Maybe something like the first example "To get ancestors (grandchildren) for a particular area" in the forum post from a year ago

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Steve Collins.

    Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können

  • Steve Collins wrote:

    Jeff Moden wrote:

    I have a fellow that's trying to resolve some performance issues in a HierarchyID-based table.  I just don't use HierarchyID because I've found or made better ways to work with hierarchies and so I need some help, please.

    Several years ago, I ran into an article somewhere that demonstrated how to cnvert a HierarchyID-based hierarchr back to adjacency list but I can't find that article nor any article on Google, Dusk-Duck-Go, or BING that even comes close.

    With that, do any of you good folks know how to do such a thing?  I think I might be able to help this person if we can do that.  Here's the link to the pertinent part of the thread of the person I'm trying to help.

    https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/lots-of-data-hierarchyid-performanceproblems#post-3993519

    Thank you for reading this whether you can help or not.

    About a year ago I posted a working example of hierarchyid based on an answer from Stack Overflow.  It's interesting and we looked at hierarchyid to see if it was useful.  At the time it seems like maybe I knew what I was doing but it's foggy now because I haven't used it since and it's not used it in any of my projects.  "Nested sets" can also be represented using JSON arrays.  My SQL script on that was published on SSC.  The +4 answer on Stack Overflow (from GMB (which is a fake account)) demonstrates the method you suggested to go from leaf to root.  My answer on SSC was based on Ben Thul's answer on SO.  Regarding the OP it's my understanding from your (Jeff's) initial questions the underlying data to redo the recursion(s) is not available.  That could be interesting to compare different methods but (surprise, surprise) no sample data provided.  Perhaps the query could be refactored to use GetAncestors which gets the "downline hierarchyids" (afaik) instead of GetDescendents.  Maybe something like the first example "To get ancestors (grandchildren) for a particular area" in the forum post from a year ago

    Heh... so I guess the answer to my question of "do any of you good folks know how to do such a thing?" is no.   That's Ok.  I'm working on it.  Just thought someone might have a link to an incredibly elusive example.

    As a bit of a sidebar, it would be interesting to do a performance test between the JSON array method and real nested sets.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • Why do I feel like the thread below is a bunch of people in an autopsy room, with a dead body that was killed by a shotgun blast, and all of us are trying to figure out which one of the thousands of different BB's caused the actual death?

    https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/performance-question-16/page/4#post-3996243

    Michael L John
    If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
    To properly post on a forum:
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/

  • that individual its a waste of time - even the last comment - how to fix that particular conversion to code - was told how - can't do it obviously but still insists there should be another way to fix it.

  • Any news on fixing the spam issue as yet? Every post apart from 1 on the "Active Threads" page just now was a spam post for the same telephone number. It's clearly not something that is going to go away, but the volume that is getting through spam filters is getting silly at this stage.

    Thom~

    Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
    Larnu.uk

  • Just a quick venting/raging......Entity frameworks using code first is the spawn of the devil himself. It is seriously one of the worst anti-patterns I have ever seen. Thanks I feel better now having shared this with some people who actually understand just how horrific that is.

    _______________________________________________________________

    Need help? Help us help you.

    Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.

    Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.

    Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
    Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
    Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
    Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/

  • Sean Lange wrote:

    Just a quick venting/raging......Entity frameworks using code first is the spawn of the devil himself. It is seriously one of the worst anti-patterns I have ever seen. Thanks I feel better now having shared this with some people who actually understand just how horrific that is.

    It's the software equivalent of onion gum.  Nobody really likes the taste.  It's sold as a magic elixir and people get caught up in the spell.  It turns measly proceduralists into full stack.  Ask one and they'll tell you.  No matter what they say tho at the end of the day EF is a "black box" data model and a performance bottleneck.  Imo from a technical point of view starting at .NET 6 there're no reasons remaining to use EF.  Is the situation open to consider alternate approaches?

    Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können

  • Steve Collins wrote:

    Sean Lange wrote:

    Just a quick venting/raging......Entity frameworks using code first is the spawn of the devil himself. It is seriously one of the worst anti-patterns I have ever seen. Thanks I feel better now having shared this with some people who actually understand just how horrific that is.

    It's the software equivalent of onion gum.  Nobody really likes the taste.  It's sold as a magic elixir and people get caught up in the spell.  It turns measly proceduralists into full stack.  Ask one and they'll tell you.  No matter what they say tho at the end of the day EF is a "black box" data model and a performance bottleneck.  Imo from a technical point of view starting at .NET 6 there're no reasons remaining to use EF.  Is the situation open to consider alternate approaches?

     

    Yeah it is god awful to say the least. Fortunately I have the support of management to implement whatever changes I feel are needed and the dev team is going to have to follow along. This is because the performance is just hideous. We have a grid that displays only 25 rows at a time. It runs two separate queries. One for the total row count and another for the current page of details. Both queries take on average between 2-3 seconds. This makes page loads way beyond anything a normal user would tolerate. Amazingly they have been working on this for five years and now that they are close to going live they started looking into the performance. It's going to be a long and bumpy ride over the next few months I suspect.

    _______________________________________________________________

    Need help? Help us help you.

    Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.

    Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.

    Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
    Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
    Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
    Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/

  • Sean Lange wrote:

    Steve Collins wrote:

    Sean Lange wrote:

    Just a quick venting/raging......Entity frameworks using code first is the spawn of the devil himself. It is seriously one of the worst anti-patterns I have ever seen. Thanks I feel better now having shared this with some people who actually understand just how horrific that is.

    It's the software equivalent of onion gum.  Nobody really likes the taste.  It's sold as a magic elixir and people get caught up in the spell.  It turns measly proceduralists into full stack.  Ask one and they'll tell you.  No matter what they say tho at the end of the day EF is a "black box" data model and a performance bottleneck.  Imo from a technical point of view starting at .NET 6 there're no reasons remaining to use EF.  Is the situation open to consider alternate approaches?

    Yeah it is god awful to say the least. Fortunately I have the support of management to implement whatever changes I feel are needed and the dev team is going to have to follow along. This is because the performance is just hideous. We have a grid that displays only 25 rows at a time. It runs two separate queries. One for the total row count and another for the current page of details. Both queries take on average between 2-3 seconds. This makes page loads way beyond anything a normal user would tolerate. Amazingly they have been working on this for five years and now that they are close to going live they started looking into the performance. It's going to be a long and bumpy ride over the next few months I suspect.

    Have they tried the ORDER BY OFFSET FETCH method?  That's nasty fast.

     

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • OK - I can't work out what is going on here. I left my previous job in Feb 2020 (I know - a *very* good time to quit) and only started working again in Jan this year. So have dusted off my account here.

    Has it been mighty quiet around here or something? I'm apparently 216 th on the over all leader board - very surprising as I thought I was lower than that two years ago 🙂

    -------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
    There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
    I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx

  • Michael L John wrote:

    Does anyone else immediately think of the Monty Python skit every time they see or hear the word “spam”???

    Wonderful spam, marvelous spam.

    For those who haven't seen it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLih-WQwBSc

    😎

    Makes me laugh every time 🙂

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