Are the posted questions getting worse?

  • Jeff Moden (11/21/2008)


    Heh... yeah... "Please Help"... I especially love the one's that have the word "URGENT!" in the title. Those are always "fun" in one form or another.

    These are my favorite because the title almost always "Plz Help Urgent" and 1/2 of them are in the wrong forum. I like to go into these so I can see if the OP can answer any of the basic questions we all ask.

    Oops that sounds "elitist", the only problem is I'm not smart enough to be elitist. :w00t:

  • Terribly late to the party, rude of me, I know.

    I agree with Steve, it seems to come in waves. It is a bit shocking that people think that posting a question like "how do I do a backup" will get them a quicker response than if they just typed "backup" into the Books Online. Also, how did they know to come here? They did enough work to track this site down, but couldn't do enough to open up the help file. It's all a little baffling.

    However, I think of it as a sign of success for the people around here like Jeff, Gail, and Jack. In some ways, they are providing better information than the BOL (even when it's just copied from there) because of how they respond. Patience, kindness and scary depths of knowledge seperate out those very few at the top from those of us who just enjoy hacking around. You guys are just victims of your success.

    ----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Oh, and one more.

    On the URGENT posts. My favorites are the ones where you post a possible answer to the question with five minutes of the OP, but you don't get a response back for two or three days. Oh yeah, that's frightfully urgent stuff right there.

    ----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Lynn Pettis (11/20/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/20/2008)


    Adrian Nichols (11/20/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/19/2008)

    Boy oh boy do I ever agree with that! Guess that makes us "elitists", huh? 😛

    I wouldn't say that makes you elitist in the slightest. If you want a correct answer from a community such as this, the OP needs to present enough information to formulate a decent question; a question that can be answered.

    My original comment of "sounds a little elitist" is because the thread questions the knowledge level of post subject matter, not just about the quality of posting. There are genuine people out there (loosely termed DBAs, people who have had SQL dumped on them, whichever you'd like to use) that post questions such as "How do I restore a backup to another server?" and to me this question takes about 2 minutes to answer. These are easily answerable and are even easier to leave alone, but if you continually point them in the right direction (to BoL usually) they may think to go there for their next answer before coming on here.

    I agree that there are a lot of OPs that fire useless questions at the site and expect a silver bullet answer straight off. This is just crazy and all we can do to help these sort of posters is to point them to the article on how to post a question. If the first respondant points them to the article and no one helps until they post a decent question, it might affect their behaviour.

    Steve is here to sort the multiple posters out, if the community points out multiple posts to Steve this can be cleaned up. It's a symptom killer but not a cure. There'll always be people that don't use these forums as required and repeat offenders can be dealt with, sadly it's something that comes with Forums. The only cure is to educate and that's impossible to do to those who don't care about the community and only want their work doing for them:exclamationmark:

    Yep... I pretty much agree with all of that... and I understand where someone really needs help and can usually identify those good folks trying to hammer out a living. Most of us can also pretty much identify when someone is being an arrogant jerk or just plain lazy. So, the word "elitist" just didn't sit well with me when it's our turn to blow off some well deserved steam. 😉

    I guess, that as professionals, we aren't supposed to vent! 😛

    I don't know about that - ask Jeff how to "clear a table", and see if he vents....:)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?

  • Hey Jeff,

    Just curious, I was thinking about it, and, you know, I was wondering, have you got a good, you know efficient, way to clear a table?

    All my love,

    Grant

    ----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Grant Fritchey (11/22/2008)


    Terribly late to the party, rude of me, I know.

    I agree with Steve, it seems to come in waves. It is a bit shocking that people think that posting a question like "how do I do a backup" will get them a quicker response than if they just typed "backup" into the Books Online. Also, how did they know to come here? They did enough work to track this site down, but couldn't do enough to open up the help file. It's all a little baffling.

    However, I think of it as a sign of success for the people around here like Jeff, Gail, and Jack. In some ways, they are providing better information than the BOL (even when it's just copied from there) because of how they respond. Patience, kindness and scary depths of knowledge seperate out those very few at the top from those of us who just enjoy hacking around. You guys are just victims of your success.

    Agreed - I've said as much before. Gail in particular. I can pretty much count on getting an answer that reads just like BOL (sometimes verbatim), but - it's Books Online, with the rest of the info needed. Jeff's got all of the various tricks up his sleeve, so sticking around long enough, you end up catching something different, while still getting the old "newer is not always better" proof. And Jack has got the jack of of trades thing going on, covering most ares in a single bound.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?

  • Matt Miller (11/22/2008)


    And Jack has got the jack of of trades thing going on, covering most ares in a single bound.

    Thanks, but don't forget the the second half of the "jack of all trades" quote, "master of none".

  • Grant Fritchey (11/22/2008)


    Terribly late to the party, rude of me, I know.

    Better late than never. Oh, and based on your tweets it didn't seem like you were late to any of the PASS Summit parties!:D:P

  • Jack Corbett (11/22/2008)


    Grant Fritchey (11/22/2008)


    Terribly late to the party, rude of me, I know.

    Better late than never. Oh, and based on your tweets it didn't seem like you were late to any of the PASS Summit parties!:D:P

    I'm positive that I may have missed one or two.

    It was a great time. Great people. Great information. Gail goes barefoot a lot.

    To stay on topic, a bit, was it me or did the posting slack off in this last week (I don't mean by me, I didn't post squat). It seemed like there were quite a few less posts.

    ----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Yeah I think that there were fewer posts this past week. Of course there's just anecdotal evidence. I usually check in in the morning with Active Threads and work my way from the last page to the first page checking for posts with 0 or 1 answer and this week there were usually fewer than 10 pages in the morning and usually there is around 15.

    Maybe all the new poster's were laid off due to the poor economy, or are on a long Thanksgiving (in the US) vacation.

  • Or perhaps they knew there'd be fewer answers with so many people at PASS!

  • Matt Miller (11/22/2008)


    Lynn Pettis (11/20/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/20/2008)


    Adrian Nichols (11/20/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/19/2008)

    Boy oh boy do I ever agree with that! Guess that makes us "elitists", huh? 😛

    I wouldn't say that makes you elitist in the slightest. If you want a correct answer from a community such as this, the OP needs to present enough information to formulate a decent question; a question that can be answered.

    My original comment of "sounds a little elitist" is because the thread questions the knowledge level of post subject matter, not just about the quality of posting. There are genuine people out there (loosely termed DBAs, people who have had SQL dumped on them, whichever you'd like to use) that post questions such as "How do I restore a backup to another server?" and to me this question takes about 2 minutes to answer. These are easily answerable and are even easier to leave alone, but if you continually point them in the right direction (to BoL usually) they may think to go there for their next answer before coming on here.

    I agree that there are a lot of OPs that fire useless questions at the site and expect a silver bullet answer straight off. This is just crazy and all we can do to help these sort of posters is to point them to the article on how to post a question. If the first respondant points them to the article and no one helps until they post a decent question, it might affect their behaviour.

    Steve is here to sort the multiple posters out, if the community points out multiple posts to Steve this can be cleaned up. It's a symptom killer but not a cure. There'll always be people that don't use these forums as required and repeat offenders can be dealt with, sadly it's something that comes with Forums. The only cure is to educate and that's impossible to do to those who don't care about the community and only want their work doing for them:exclamationmark:

    Yep... I pretty much agree with all of that... and I understand where someone really needs help and can usually identify those good folks trying to hammer out a living. Most of us can also pretty much identify when someone is being an arrogant jerk or just plain lazy. So, the word "elitist" just didn't sit well with me when it's our turn to blow off some well deserved steam. 😉

    I guess, that as professionals, we aren't supposed to vent! 😛

    I don't know about that - ask Jeff how to "clear a table", and see if he vents....:)

    Actually, I have heard about his "quickest way to clear a table". Pretty funny if you ask me.

  • Man o' man, I sure am sorry I missed PASS... sounds like everyone I wanted to meet was there.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • GilaMonster (11/21/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/21/2008)


    Another favorite are those that ask things like "which would be faster" and they post the code for both... talk about "lazy". :hehe:

    Yeah, but at least those are easy to answer - "It depends. Try both and see."

    Heh... I'm gettin' old... "It Depends" has a whole different meaning for me. 😀

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • Jeff Moden (11/22/2008)


    GilaMonster (11/21/2008)


    Jeff Moden (11/21/2008)


    Another favorite are those that ask things like "which would be faster" and they post the code for both... talk about "lazy". :hehe:

    Yeah, but at least those are easy to answer - "It depends. Try both and see."

    Heh... I'm gettin' old... "It Depends" has a whole different meaning for me. 😀

    We may be getting old, but surely we aren't THAT old yet!

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