July 19, 2017 at 6:48 am
I think it's pretty straight forward, but unfortunately, a lot of companies blur the lines because of resource issues. In meaning, the DBA still gets stuck with all the developer work and or the developer gets stuck with all the DBA work because the business does not want to hire a DBA and developer. Hence full-stack versus front-end versus back-end. Why hire two when we can hire one?
I run into similar as my title is data architect. While many of you may see a difference, many of the individuals of the business cannot tell the difference between an architect, a developer, a dba, a modeler, and so forth. Thus, lines are always blurred together.
July 19, 2017 at 6:53 am
Ed Wagner - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:30 PMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:52 PMJason A. Long - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:24 PMBrandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:19 PMJeff Moden - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:43 AMIn this round of interviews, I made Jeff's "Name one method of getting the current date & time from SQL Server" one of my questions. Every single person seemed surprised by it and only 3 people could answer it right off the bat. One person started talking circles around the question as if I were asking him to go to RDP or something and ended up... I don't even know where. But only 3 out of our phone screens could answer and only one of those three said "there are others, but I don't know them because I never use them."
Kudos to that person.
I'm curious, Brandie... How many people did you ask the question of?
And, yeah... hat's off to that one person. That's one of the kinds of answers that I'm looking for other than the one word answer.
I think we've had 10-15 phone screens so far. Which isn't a lot but the pickings are kinda slim around here.
Jacksonville, FL... Right?
That may explain all the recruiter calls lately... 😀If they have to go out of State and still can't find people willing to move, doesn't that say something?
Yes it does.
Brandie, kudos for asking the question. Three of 15 is 20%, which, given Jeff's observations, isn't horrible. I know that sets the bar pretty low, but asking such a simple question can really save you time. It says a lot about the person claiming to have 10 years of experience. Or is that an aggregate that really means "1 month of experience 120 consecutive times" or something similar? 😉
Personally, I'd have to say that's still horrible and certainly deplorable. Anyone working with SQL Server for more than about half an hour should know how to get the current date and time using T-SQL and I don't care if you're a supposed "pure" systems DBA. If you look at what Brandie's numbers are actually stating, a total of 3 might be "book-learned" (or read an interview question blog) but only one of those three has given any indication that they've actually used it. To me, that's only 1 of the 10-15, not 3. In the presence of the one word answer that the few give, I ask the follow up question of what they've had to use it for and then watch as the posers and fakers make absolute fools of themselves not to mention burning any notion that I may have had about the possibility of them being ethical and trustworthy.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 19, 2017 at 6:57 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 5:44 AMAnd now, to continue stirring the pot...
:hehe:
TBH, I see exactly where Steve was coming from in response to the both of us. If it were a *real* interview and someone, in all seriousness, came back with either of our responses, the odds are quite high that they're going to be a pedantic pain-in-the-...butt. The sort that, while there is a use-case for having one around, is a very specific use-case and they'd more than likely end up trashing the team.
Yup, that was my thoughts.
Clarify requirements? Yes, absolutely. Discussion about what's needed and why? Yes please, that's a lovely way to figure out how someone thinks their way through problems, probably better than the code itself
Lecture the interviewer about how incomplete requirements indicate sloppiness? End of interview. Thank you for coming, have a nice day. Goodbye.
I can teach skills (providing the person is willing to learn). I cannot teach attitude and a bad one will wreck team morale and productivity faster than anything.
tbh, what I look for in an interview these days is more fit and willingness to learn than anything. I'll take someone that's not perfect technically if they attend usergroups (or at least know of them) or read blogs or forums or otherwise have a way that they're improving themselves. I'd rather that than the person who gives me the 'deer in headlights' response to "So how do you keep up to date with changes in the database field?"
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 19, 2017 at 7:02 am
Anyone having problems creating topics? I'm trying to post one and it just sits there for a few minutes, then I get an unknown error. Tried a few times.
While it hangs, I also can't use SSC on the PC, no pages on the forums load. I'm having to use the mobile at the moment.
Edit: This seems to be irrelevant of content of the topic, or the sub forum I choose. So, I can't actually make a topic about the problem either! The humanity! :angry:
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
July 19, 2017 at 7:03 am
GilaMonster - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:57 AMjasona.work - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 5:44 AMAnd now, to continue stirring the pot...
:hehe:
TBH, I see exactly where Steve was coming from in response to the both of us. If it were a *real* interview and someone, in all seriousness, came back with either of our responses, the odds are quite high that they're going to be a pedantic pain-in-the-...butt. The sort that, while there is a use-case for having one around, is a very specific use-case and they'd more than likely end up trashing the team.Yup, that was my thoughts.
Clarify requirements? Yes, absolutely. Discussion about what's needed and why? Yes please, that's a lovely way to figure out how someone thinks their way through problems, probably better than the code itself
Lecture the interviewer about how incomplete requirements indicate sloppiness? End of interview. Thank you for coming, have a nice day. Goodbye.
I can teach skills (providing the person is willing to learn). I cannot teach attitude and a bad one will wreck team morale and productivity faster than anything.tbh, what I look for in an interview these days is more fit and willingness to learn than anything. I'll take someone that's not perfect technically if they attend usergroups (or at least know of them) or read blogs or forums or otherwise have a way that they're improving themselves. I'd rather that than the person who gives me the 'deer in headlights' response to "So how do you keep up to date with changes in the database field?"
If they tell you they use DBCC TIMEWARP to get the next several upcoming versions, do they get bonus points in the interview?
July 19, 2017 at 7:18 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 7:03 AMGilaMonster - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:57 AMjasona.work - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 5:44 AMAnd now, to continue stirring the pot...
:hehe:
TBH, I see exactly where Steve was coming from in response to the both of us. If it were a *real* interview and someone, in all seriousness, came back with either of our responses, the odds are quite high that they're going to be a pedantic pain-in-the-...butt. The sort that, while there is a use-case for having one around, is a very specific use-case and they'd more than likely end up trashing the team.Yup, that was my thoughts.
Clarify requirements? Yes, absolutely. Discussion about what's needed and why? Yes please, that's a lovely way to figure out how someone thinks their way through problems, probably better than the code itself
Lecture the interviewer about how incomplete requirements indicate sloppiness? End of interview. Thank you for coming, have a nice day. Goodbye.
I can teach skills (providing the person is willing to learn). I cannot teach attitude and a bad one will wreck team morale and productivity faster than anything.tbh, what I look for in an interview these days is more fit and willingness to learn than anything. I'll take someone that's not perfect technically if they attend usergroups (or at least know of them) or read blogs or forums or otherwise have a way that they're improving themselves. I'd rather that than the person who gives me the 'deer in headlights' response to "So how do you keep up to date with changes in the database field?"
If they tell you they use DBCC TIMEWARP to get the next several upcoming versions, do they get bonus points in the interview?
Hire on the spot.
Funny story. Last interview I did was for a client. They'd done the initial screening, but they wanted my opinion, and so they invited me to the technical interview.
The guy was so nervous he could barely manage to form coherent sentences. Technically he was fine, though he seemed very unsure of himself.
I asked why he was so nervous. Answer: "I was in your session at SQLSaturday last year."
The client's manager had told him that I'd be in the interview and the guy had worked himself almost into a panic on the drive.
They hired him, and he's a fantastic DBA.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 19, 2017 at 7:26 am
xsevensinzx - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:48 AMI think it's pretty straight forward, but unfortunately, a lot of companies blur the lines because of resource issues. In meaning, the DBA still gets stuck with all the developer work and or the developer gets stuck with all the DBA work because the business does not want to hire a DBA and developer. Hence full-stack versus front-end versus back-end. Why hire two when we can hire one?I run into similar as my title is data architect. While many of you may see a difference, many of the individuals of the business cannot tell the difference between an architect, a developer, a dba, a modeler, and so forth. Thus, lines are always blurred together.
No. Cheap, nasty clients try to combine Dev/DBA. Was in that place at the pit of the Great Recession once or twice before I wised up and shipped out.
TBH, I don't know what a 'Data Architect' does - I presume he configures organisation-wide flow of ALL data.
July 19, 2017 at 7:41 am
Thom A - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 7:02 AMAnyone having problems creating topics? I'm trying to post one and it just sits there for a few minutes, then I get an unknown error. Tried a few times.While it hangs, I also can't use SSC on the PC, no pages on the forums load. I'm having to use the mobile at the moment.
Edit: This seems to be irrelevant of content of the topic, or the sub forum I choose. So, I can't actually make a topic about the problem either! The humanity! :angry:
Got around this by making topic on my mobile with no content. Then replying to it. Oddly, even trying edit the initial post in the topic gives me an "unexpected error" on my PC.
I'm running Windows 7, Firefox 54.0.1 (64-bit).
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:39 AMJason A. Long - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:56 PMI'm in Jacksonville so I'm not an out of state call. I just know I have a backlog of recruiter messages on LinkedIn that I haven't had a chance to respond to. I don't actually have clue what positions they're looking to fill just yet.Operational DBA. Day to day production & dev support. Basically making sure everything is working in the morning, then supporting the Devs and the users when they think they find an error in the system. Security, backups, jobs, need to know T-SQL. You know. Basic DBA stuff.
So tell me, Jason. How do you get the current date and time from SQL Server? @=)
LOL... Either GETDATE() or CORRENT_TIMESTAMP. If I need MS granularity or better, then I use SYSDATETIME().
We don't use UTC but if we did, then GETUTCDATE() or SYSUTCDATETIME().
Unfortunately, I'm a far better SQL Dev than I am DBA, That said, a good SQL Dev opportunity that comes with some tutelage from a top shelf DBA would be tough to ignore. 😉
July 19, 2017 at 8:28 am
Jason A. Long - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 7:45 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:39 AMJason A. Long - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:56 PMI'm in Jacksonville so I'm not an out of state call. I just know I have a backlog of recruiter messages on LinkedIn that I haven't had a chance to respond to. I don't actually have clue what positions they're looking to fill just yet.Operational DBA. Day to day production & dev support. Basically making sure everything is working in the morning, then supporting the Devs and the users when they think they find an error in the system. Security, backups, jobs, need to know T-SQL. You know. Basic DBA stuff.
So tell me, Jason. How do you get the current date and time from SQL Server? @=)
LOL... Either GETDATE() or CORRENT_TIMESTAMP. If I need MS granularity or better, then I use SYSDATETIME().
We don't use UTC but if we did, then GETUTCDATE() or SYSUTCDATETIME().
Unfortunately, I'm a far better SQL Dev than I am DBA, That said, a good SQL Dev opportunity that comes with some tutelage from a top shelf DBA would be tough to ignore. 😉
I know about those, but I would have to lookup the calls in BoL to be sure which I needed.
July 19, 2017 at 8:49 am
Is this cheating?
EXEC sys.xp_cmdshell 'date /t';
EXEC sys.xp_cmdshell 'time /t';
July 19, 2017 at 9:37 am
Jeff Moden - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:53 AMEd Wagner - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:30 PMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:52 PMJason A. Long - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:24 PMBrandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:19 PMJeff Moden - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:43 AMIn this round of interviews, I made Jeff's "Name one method of getting the current date & time from SQL Server" one of my questions. Every single person seemed surprised by it and only 3 people could answer it right off the bat. One person started talking circles around the question as if I were asking him to go to RDP or something and ended up... I don't even know where. But only 3 out of our phone screens could answer and only one of those three said "there are others, but I don't know them because I never use them."
Kudos to that person.
I'm curious, Brandie... How many people did you ask the question of?
And, yeah... hat's off to that one person. That's one of the kinds of answers that I'm looking for other than the one word answer.
I think we've had 10-15 phone screens so far. Which isn't a lot but the pickings are kinda slim around here.
Jacksonville, FL... Right?
That may explain all the recruiter calls lately... 😀If they have to go out of State and still can't find people willing to move, doesn't that say something?
Yes it does.
Brandie, kudos for asking the question. Three of 15 is 20%, which, given Jeff's observations, isn't horrible. I know that sets the bar pretty low, but asking such a simple question can really save you time. It says a lot about the person claiming to have 10 years of experience. Or is that an aggregate that really means "1 month of experience 120 consecutive times" or something similar? 😉
Personally, I'd have to say that's still horrible and certainly deplorable. Anyone working with SQL Server for more than about half an hour should know how to get the current date and time using T-SQL and I don't care if you're a supposed "pure" systems DBA. If you look at what Brandie's numbers are actually stating, a total of 3 might be "book-learned" (or read an interview question blog) but only one of those three has given any indication that they've actually used it. To me, that's only 1 of the 10-15, not 3. In the presence of the one word answer that the few give, I ask the follow up question of what they've had to use it for and then watch as the posers and fakers make absolute fools of themselves not to mention burning any notion that I may have had about the possibility of them being ethical and trustworthy.
I'd have to agree. Beyond "Hello World" it's one of the most basic things to learn. I know what you've experienced in interviews and I think that the title of DBA has been cheapened by the number of unqualified people who call themselves a DBA. I certainly don't know everything, but seriously... :w00t::crazy:
July 19, 2017 at 9:39 am
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
July 19, 2017 at 9:40 am
Phil Parkin - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:49 AMIs this cheating?
EXEC sys.xp_cmdshell 'date /t';
EXEC sys.xp_cmdshell 'time /t';
Now I'm tempted to use sp_execute_external_script to call out to R (or Python) to get the current date and time.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 19, 2017 at 9:41 am
ChrisM@Work - Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:39 AMForum outage for around 20 minutes here.
same here (UK)
________________________________________________________________
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