August 8, 2011 at 6:08 am
I suspect he was answering Kraig's question 'So who are you?'
Of course, anyone who's watched Season 2 of Babylon 5 knows that's completely the wrong answer (and it's the wrong answer in the context it was asked here too)
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
August 8, 2011 at 6:22 am
And by answering that question as he did he stated his intentions. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand that.
August 8, 2011 at 7:04 am
First of Congrats to Gianluca. It is a Bold step you have taken. I am sure you will be successful.
Lynn, I must have missed your post somewhere saying that you wont be in SSC much. What is up? What did I miss?
Regarding the MVP thread, I think you all handled it it perfectly. Now he has an idea what it takes to become an MVP. There are some who has manipulated the system and got MVP. I remember a case where someone was posting other peoples blogs as his own and he was an MVP. If I am not mistaken Steve or someone from here complained regarding that. I hope he does not try to become someone like that.
-Roy
August 8, 2011 at 7:14 am
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Obviously anything I have to say is going to be taken the wrong way.
Well, after your earlier reply followed by this which read one after the other convey very clearly the implication that his only interest in helping people or contributing to the community is self-satisfaction it's hardly surprising that he feels you are unjustifiably hypercritical, is it? And you've continued in the same vein here too, haven't you? You need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when nothing they've actually said justifies the (really insulting) interpretation you persist in appearing to place on it. I'm beginning to wonder where your "Saint" reputation comes from - it appears to me that if you have a halo it's definitely slipping, maybe it has even fallen right off.
There. that's probably made me unpopular with the great and good of the thread - but I believe it needed saying.
edit: fix url syntax
Tom
August 8, 2011 at 7:20 am
Now that's a catch 22. Nice story Collin : http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1155970-391-1.aspx
August 8, 2011 at 7:24 am
Actually, my halo does slip occasionally.
But I should also say I'm not the one that ordained myself, it was many of the others here on ssc based on my efforts on numerous other threads. I take this a sign of the respect I have earned from my peers.
August 8, 2011 at 7:36 am
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Obviously anything I have to say is going to be taken the wrong way.Well, after your earlier reply followed by this which read one after the other convey very clearly the implication that his only interest in helping people or contributing to the community is self-satisfaction it's hardly surprising that he feels you are unjustifiably hypercritical, is it? And you've continued in the same vein here too, haven't you? You need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when nothing they've actually said justifies the (really insulting) interpretation you persist in appearing to place on it. I'm beginning to wonder where your "Saint" reputation comes from - it appears to me that if you have a halo it's definitely slipping, maybe it has even fallen right off.
There. that's probably made me unpopular with the great and good of the thread - but I believe it needed saying.
edit: fix url syntax
I hadn't thought about it quite that way, Tom. The written word, especially from someone struggling a bit with English, can sometimes be taken the wrong way. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is certainly the right thing to do.
I have to admit, though... the OP sounded like his goal of becoming an MVP was a goal to enhance his resume more than it was to become a helpful carbon-based lifeform.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 8, 2011 at 7:37 am
Jeff Moden (8/8/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Obviously anything I have to say is going to be taken the wrong way.Well, after your earlier reply followed by this which read one after the other convey very clearly the implication that his only interest in helping people or contributing to the community is self-satisfaction it's hardly surprising that he feels you are unjustifiably hypercritical, is it? And you've continued in the same vein here too, haven't you? You need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when nothing they've actually said justifies the (really insulting) interpretation you persist in appearing to place on it. I'm beginning to wonder where your "Saint" reputation comes from - it appears to me that if you have a halo it's definitely slipping, maybe it has even fallen right off.
There. that's probably made me unpopular with the great and good of the thread - but I believe it needed saying.
edit: fix url syntax
I hadn't thought about it quite that way, Tom. The written word, especially from someone struggling a bit with English, can sometimes be taken the wrong way. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is certainly the right thing to do.
I have to admit, though... the OP sounded like his goal of becoming an MVP was a goal to enhance his resume more than it was to become a helpful carbon-based lifeform.
I had the same impression, wanted it on the resume for himself. Not to help the community.
August 8, 2011 at 7:41 am
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Actually, my halo does slip occasionally.But I should also say I'm not the one that ordained myself, it was many of the others here on ssc based on my efforts on numerous other threads. I take this a sign of the respect I have earned from my peers.
Don't worry - I'm fully aware that you didn't beatify yourself, it was done by others for good (very good) reasons. I wasn't in touch with SQLServerCentral when they did it, but you definitely have my respect as well as theirs - since I cam ehere I've seen some of what you've done on various threads and I've mostly been much imprtessed by your patience and willingness to go the extra mile to render assistance. But my respect for you won't prevent me jumping in hard when - as now - I think you are being unfairly cruel to someone more in need of advice than of punishment; on the contrary, I would regard not doing so as a betrayal of that respect.
Tom
August 8, 2011 at 8:05 am
It was not my intent to be cruel or hurtful but to impress that it isn't just what you do but also why you do it. My impression from the ops posts is that he is doing things to earn something others have, not just to help others.
Jeff even tried to show him this with one of his posts and I tried (apparently without success) to build on that as well.
I guess I missed the mark.
August 8, 2011 at 8:06 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/8/2011)
Jeff Moden (8/8/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Obviously anything I have to say is going to be taken the wrong way.Well, after your earlier reply followed by this which read one after the other convey very clearly the implication that his only interest in helping people or contributing to the community is self-satisfaction it's hardly surprising that he feels you are unjustifiably hypercritical, is it? And you've continued in the same vein here too, haven't you? You need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when nothing they've actually said justifies the (really insulting) interpretation you persist in appearing to place on it. I'm beginning to wonder where your "Saint" reputation comes from - it appears to me that if you have a halo it's definitely slipping, maybe it has even fallen right off.
There. that's probably made me unpopular with the great and good of the thread - but I believe it needed saying.
edit: fix url syntax
I hadn't thought about it quite that way, Tom. The written word, especially from someone struggling a bit with English, can sometimes be taken the wrong way. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is certainly the right thing to do.
I have to admit, though... the OP sounded like his goal of becoming an MVP was a goal to enhance his resume more than it was to become a helpful carbon-based lifeform.
I had the same impression, wanted it on the resume for himself. Not to help the community.
I think you might find his response to Jeff's comment which tore his splitter apart suggests a different story. Jeff told him in effect that it was an extremely shoddy piece of work, pointing out that undertaking a thoroughgoing analaysis of what was wromg with it and why it was the wrong way to go about it would be quite a large task but one very useful for his education, especially if he published the rsults as he discovered them and accepted that comments on them might demonstrate that the improved code could potentially still be surpassed by someone else, from whom he could also learn, and generally making it clear than his coding there was at junior assistant trainee competence level; he also suggested that he would have to undertake similar excercises over and over again, before he got anywhere near a seriously good competence level; but he refrained from attacking his morals. He got a thank-you, not a complaint or a cry of pain. So the guy appears to accept justified criticism without difficulty. Maybe the criticism he didn't accept was not justified? I really didn't see anything in his comments that I would interpret as "my only interest in MVP is to get another qualification on my resume", although I did see some struggling to express things in English. And his straightforward statement "I love helping people" rings a lot of bells with me - and that statement is what Lynn appeared to be attacking, in effect calling him a liar.
Tom
August 8, 2011 at 8:08 am
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Actually, my halo does slip occasionally.But I should also say I'm not the one that ordained myself, it was many of the others here on ssc based on my efforts on numerous other threads. I take this a sign of the respect I have earned from my peers.
Don't worry - I'm fully aware that you didn't beatify yourself, it was done by others for good (very good) reasons. I wasn't in touch with SQLServerCentral when they did it, but you definitely have my respect as well as theirs - since I cam ehere I've seen some of what you've done on various threads and I've mostly been much imprtessed by your patience and willingness to go the extra mile to render assistance. But my respect for you won't prevent me jumping in hard when - as now - I think you are being unfairly cruel to someone more in need of advice than of punishment; on the contrary, I would regard not doing so as a betrayal of that respect.
You didn't miss the mark. It's a core belief + language barrier. At this point, I don't see much good hapenning form trying (again) to drive that point in. He'll get it when he gets it, if he has to get it at all.
... live and let live, freedom of choice. Nothing you can do about that one! 😉
August 8, 2011 at 8:11 am
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/8/2011)
Jeff Moden (8/8/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/8/2011)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2011)
Obviously anything I have to say is going to be taken the wrong way.Well, after your earlier reply followed by this which read one after the other convey very clearly the implication that his only interest in helping people or contributing to the community is self-satisfaction it's hardly surprising that he feels you are unjustifiably hypercritical, is it? And you've continued in the same vein here too, haven't you? You need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when nothing they've actually said justifies the (really insulting) interpretation you persist in appearing to place on it. I'm beginning to wonder where your "Saint" reputation comes from - it appears to me that if you have a halo it's definitely slipping, maybe it has even fallen right off.
There. that's probably made me unpopular with the great and good of the thread - but I believe it needed saying.
edit: fix url syntax
I hadn't thought about it quite that way, Tom. The written word, especially from someone struggling a bit with English, can sometimes be taken the wrong way. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is certainly the right thing to do.
I have to admit, though... the OP sounded like his goal of becoming an MVP was a goal to enhance his resume more than it was to become a helpful carbon-based lifeform.
I had the same impression, wanted it on the resume for himself. Not to help the community.
I think you might find his response to Jeff's comment which tore his splitter apart suggests a different story. Jeff told him in effect that it was an extremely shoddy piece of work, pointing out that undertaking a thoroughgoing analaysis of what was wromg with it and why it was the wrong way to go about it would be quite a large task but one very useful for his education, especially if he published the rsults as he discovered them and accepted that comments on them might demonstrate that the improved code could potentially still be surpassed by someone else, from whom he could also learn, and generally making it clear than his coding there was at junior assistant trainee competence level; he also suggested that he would have to undertake similar excercises over and over again, before he got anywhere near a seriously good competence level; but he refrained from attacking his morals. He got a thank-you, not a complaint or a cry of pain. So the guy appears to accept justified criticism without difficulty. Maybe the criticism he didn't accept was not justified? I really didn't see anything in his comments that I would interpret as "my only interest in MVP is to get another qualification on my resume", although I did see some struggling to express things in English. And his straightforward statement "I love helping people" rings a lot of bells with me - and that statement is what Lynn appeared to be attacking, in effect calling him a liar.
Nice way to see and put it. As I said in my previous post this seems like a tangled web of <mis>communication and interpretation. We just might be better off shaking hands now and leaving that alone for a few days before it really gets ugly... not that anyone's trying to go there.
August 8, 2011 at 8:19 am
Actually Tom, I read more into what Jeff said. IMHO, jeff was also trying to show him how to become better. Test your code; look for, develop, and test alternatives. Don't settle for something that just happens to work.
Building on that, I tried to impress the need to learn more and explore, and then share what you learn with others. Step out of your comfort zone (some I still need to do by getting out there and trying my hand and presenting at user group meetings).
There is more to just helping others than just providing an answer.
August 8, 2011 at 8:34 am
Also, you focused on the wrong part of his statement. The part that encouraged a response was "an up and coming future MVP."
It isn't enough to just help others; look at what I have done here on ssc, the people I have helped. There is a lot more that one needs to do for Microsoft to bestow the honor on MVP to someone.
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