April 5, 2010 at 11:43 am
CirquedeSQLeil (4/5/2010)
Matt Miller (#4) (4/5/2010)
If you need a gag gift - I think I have a full set of floppies AND manuals for Office 4.3... It only weighs 30 or so pounds!
Maybe Steve could use them as door giveaways at the SSC party at PASS Summit. :w00t:
Call me bad!!! I'd give that away at a user group meeting. I'd wrap it up and call it a mystery gift. 😀
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
April 5, 2010 at 11:48 am
Alvin Ramard (4/5/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/5/2010)
Matt Miller (#4) (4/5/2010)
If you need a gag gift - I think I have a full set of floppies AND manuals for Office 4.3... It only weighs 30 or so pounds!
Maybe Steve could use them as door giveaways at the SSC party at PASS Summit. :w00t:
Call me bad!!! I'd give that away at a user group meeting. I'd wrap it up and call it a mystery gift. 😀
Isn't it April Fool's Month?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 5, 2010 at 11:57 am
Kit G (4/5/2010)
lmu92 (4/5/2010)
Kit G (4/5/2010)
... Memories of holding my breath during reboot hoping that the operating system (Windows 3.11) would come up abound. ...Wasn't Windows 3.11 "just" an application back in those days that required one of the DOS versions underneath as an OS? Or do I have a memory leak?
Yes, as I remember, there was DOS 6.0 on the computer as well. However, from what I remember, the bootup sequence was DOS 6.0 directly into Win 3.11. Thus, if Win 3.11 got corrupted by the blue screen of death, your only option might be to reinstall the operating system so you could get to the computer. I never had to build a Win 3.11 machine so I'm not familiar with the install problems, just talk from a co-worker who was responsible for such things.
Win 95 was when I started building my own systems. I fondly remember making the stack of floppies to use in installing all my programs form scratch and sitting there for an afternoon (if nothing went wrong) feeding the computer floppies. Just don't knock the stack down.
There was a button (I don't remember which one, or maybe it was a combo), that would bypass boot.ini and autoexec.bat. Windows was launched by autoexec.bat calling the win.exe file, so if you bypassed that, you could get to the command prompt, even if Windows 3.11 had died beyond resurrection.
Yes, I have been playing with computers for FAR too many years ....
Windows 95 didn't require a pre-installation of DOS. You could use a boot disk (floppy), to bring the computer up, and then install Windows 95 from either a CD or floppies (I've done both). Kind of like firing up Ubuntu Linux from a bootable CD these days, you can get the OS into RAM without installing to the hard drive. Most Win 95 boxes came with a generic boot disk that would do this for you.
Windows NT 3.51 installed much the same way.
Windows 98 and NT 4.0 both had bootable CD versions, or you could boot from a bootable floppy or a system-formatted hard drive.
OS/2 started out installing like Win 95, then went to bootable CDs, if I remember correctly. (Then just plain went away, pretty much.)
Everything since then has pretty much worked on bootable CDs or DVDs. I'm looking forward to the next installers, which will be either flash drives or something you download. BIOSes need to be able to fire up a NIC and connect to the web, and I'm pretty sure that'll happen sooner or later. Google's OS isn't far off from that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 5, 2010 at 12:00 pm
OS/2 = 1/2 * OS = half an operationg system 😀
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
April 5, 2010 at 12:12 pm
GSquared (4/5/2010) I'm looking forward to the next installers, which will be either flash drives or something you download. BIOSes need to be able to fire up a NIC and connect to the web, and I'm pretty sure that'll happen sooner or later. Google's OS isn't far off from that.
I'm looking forward to Bios's going away in favor of EFI or whatever is next, and as for them firing up the NIC, that is already there in most of the servers you buy today so that the Bios can start talking to a management server the moment it gets power, or rather I know it exists in the IBM servers we've been purchasing for the last few years. Totally freaked out our network people when they were all of a sudden using twice as many IP addresses as they were supposed to. The default for the IBM firmware took a dhcp address which was different from the one used by windows whether it was dhcp or statically assigned because it also used a separate MAC that was different from the one reported to the OS.
April 5, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Luke L (4/5/2010)
GSquared (4/5/2010) I'm looking forward to the next installers, which will be either flash drives or something you download. BIOSes need to be able to fire up a NIC and connect to the web, and I'm pretty sure that'll happen sooner or later. Google's OS isn't far off from that.
I'm looking forward to Bios's going away in favor of EFI or whatever is next, and as for them firing up the NIC, that is already there in most of the servers you buy today so that the Bios can start talking to a management server the moment it gets power, or rather I know it exists in the IBM servers we've been purchasing for the last few years. Totally freaked out our network people when they were all of a sudden using twice as many IP addresses as they were supposed to. The default for the IBM firmware took a dhcp address which was different from the one used by windows whether it was dhcp or statically assigned because it also used a separate MAC that was different from the one reported to the OS.
Same is true of Dell and HP. I have been working with DELL and HP servers for about 7 years that had this additional management port. It is extremely useful.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 5, 2010 at 12:39 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (4/5/2010)
Same is true of Dell and HP. I have been working with DELL and HP servers for about 7 years that had this additional management port. It is extremely useful.
Nope not an additional port like a Lights-out or DRAC card, it was the via the internal NIC. When you plugged it in the switch saw 2 MACs coming from the same port on the switch (the firmware for the network card basically used itself as a hub for lack of a better explanation). Extremely useful for hardware errors and such alerting the management server, however it drove my network guys nuts until they got it straightened out. I think they vlanned it away to the management network to separate it from the data network or some such... I stopped caring once it was no longer me they were screaming at for taking all of their IPs 😉
-Luke.
April 5, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Luke L (4/5/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/5/2010)
Same is true of Dell and HP. I have been working with DELL and HP servers for about 7 years that had this additional management port. It is extremely useful.
Nope not an additional port like a Lights-out or DRAC card, it was the via the internal NIC. When you plugged it in the switch saw 2 MACs coming from the same port on the switch (the firmware for the network card basically used itself as a hub for lack of a better explanation). Extremely useful for hardware errors and such alerting the management server, however it drove my network guys nuts until they got it straightened out. I think they vlanned it away to the management network to separate it from the data network or some such... I stopped caring once it was no longer me they were screaming at for taking all of their IPs 😉
-Luke.
Yeah that is different. I can see why they were going nuts over it too.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Luke L (4/5/2010)
GSquared (4/5/2010) I'm looking forward to the next installers, which will be either flash drives or something you download. BIOSes need to be able to fire up a NIC and connect to the web, and I'm pretty sure that'll happen sooner or later. Google's OS isn't far off from that.
I'm looking forward to Bios's going away in favor of EFI or whatever is next, and as for them firing up the NIC, that is already there in most of the servers you buy today so that the Bios can start talking to a management server the moment it gets power, or rather I know it exists in the IBM servers we've been purchasing for the last few years. Totally freaked out our network people when they were all of a sudden using twice as many IP addresses as they were supposed to. The default for the IBM firmware took a dhcp address which was different from the one used by windows whether it was dhcp or statically assigned because it also used a separate MAC that was different from the one reported to the OS.
They can already fire up a NIC. That's how PXE boot (pixie boot) works. I'm just looking for them to be able to download a full OS from the web, probably via SFTP or some such, instead of having to do so via physical media.
This is already possible, as with Windows Deployment Services, but not generally available as an option with a new computer that you buy or build for personal use. It's pretty much a corporate thing, and not a service Microsoft is offering.
This is at least partially due to the fact that downloading a full version of Windows via even a pretty good broadband connection is still a major undertaking. I'm sure it would come under the heading of "forget it, not even going to try" for people in Gail's position, regarding bandwidth and use.
That's why I think USB flash drives would be better, for now. DVDs are clunky, fingerprint prone, require specialized hardware (DVD drive), get scratched, etc. Flash drives, even WORM/ROM ones, would be better for distributing modern OSes.
And, if the drive was fully read/write, how cool would it be if you could install your OS of choice on a thumb drive, keep your files, etc., on it, and boot whatever computer you want and have the settings you want, the files and apps you use, etc., be portable?
Partially achieveable currently, but to really make it work, you need the computer to store hardware drivers locally (so that you don't have to install those on your flash drive and don't have to worry about missing a driver if you plug it into a computer you haven't used before), and the rest of the OS on the flash drive.
Of course this has potentially huge drawbacks, but I still think it would be a move in the right direction.
Business users could carry a few grams of flash drive, and keep a backup online (something like Carbonite.com), instead of a laptop, if they so desired. Hotels and airplanes could have laptop-like computers that would boot from your flash drive with your OS and data. If you lost the drive (one of the drawbacks, especially if they don't have adequate file encryption), IT could FedEx a fresh one to you, or you could download a fresh copy onto a flash drive purchased locally, whichever was more efficient/cheaper/possible, without the cost of a lost laptop to replace and ship. And so on.
As a side benefit, airport security wouldn't have as much to worry about. A properly rigged laptop with a fully charged battery can be made to explode forcefully enough to damage/crash a plane. No laptops carried on = better security.
I think that would be a major improvement over the current systems for installing and using OSes.
Servers would remain pretty much as they currently exist. No reason to make them portable. It's laptops (including netbooks, tablets, et al) that would mainly be impacted.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 5, 2010 at 1:44 pm
GSquared (4/5/2010)
They can already fire up a NIC. That's how PXE boot (pixie boot) works. I'm just looking for them to be able to download a full OS from the web, probably via SFTP or some such, instead of having to do so via physical media.
It's how I've installed just about every version of fedora for the last few releases. You gotta create one disk (floppy, cd, flashboot device), boot with the advanced install options and point it at the appropriate mirror. Sure not soemthing really available for someone like Gail, but I have a pretty quick connection to the net, I'm usually hampered by bandwidth throttles on the mirrors more than my own connection.
And, if the drive was fully read/write, how cool would it be if you could install your OS of choice on a thumb drive, keep your files, etc., on it, and boot whatever computer you want and have the settings you want, the files and apps you use, etc., be portable?
Partially achieveable currently, but to really make it work, you need the computer to store hardware drivers locally (so that you don't have to install those on your flash drive and don't have to worry about missing a driver if you plug it into a computer you haven't used before), and the rest of the OS on the flash drive.
VM's and products like VMWare's ThinApp[/url] and the MS look a like (can't remember the name off the top of my head) are looking great for this type of stuff. Again corporate only mostly, but I saw a demo of running every ie version from 5.5-8 recently just by opening a different executable on a flash drive, complete with profiles/user settings/customizations etc. It was pretty impressive. Same with Office etc.
I'm not sure I buy the whole airports/hotels investing in the hardware to make this happen, but I suppose it could work. Just seems the hardware expense would be more than what they are looking to invest in. Look at the the usual 2 crappy PC's in the 'business center' in most hotels these days. Seems like something you could sell to Virgin-Atlantic though.
-Luke.
April 5, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Luke L (4/5/2010)
GSquared (4/5/2010)
They can already fire up a NIC. That's how PXE boot (pixie boot) works. I'm just looking for them to be able to download a full OS from the web, probably via SFTP or some such, instead of having to do so via physical media.
It's how I've installed just about every version of fedora for the last few releases. You gotta create one disk (floppy, cd, flashboot device), boot with the advanced install options and point it at the appropriate mirror. Sure not soemthing really available for someone like Gail, but I have a pretty quick connection to the net, I'm usually hampered by bandwidth throttles on the mirrors more than my own connection.
And, if the drive was fully read/write, how cool would it be if you could install your OS of choice on a thumb drive, keep your files, etc., on it, and boot whatever computer you want and have the settings you want, the files and apps you use, etc., be portable?
Partially achieveable currently, but to really make it work, you need the computer to store hardware drivers locally (so that you don't have to install those on your flash drive and don't have to worry about missing a driver if you plug it into a computer you haven't used before), and the rest of the OS on the flash drive.
VM's and products like VMWare's ThinApp[/url] and the MS look a like (can't remember the name off the top of my head) are looking great for this type of stuff. Again corporate only mostly, but I saw a demo of running every ie version from 5.5-8 recently just by opening a different executable on a flash drive, complete with profiles/user settings/customizations etc. It was pretty impressive. Same with Office etc.
I'm not sure I buy the whole airports/hotels investing in the hardware to make this happen, but I suppose it could work. Just seems the hardware expense would be more than what they are looking to invest in. Look at the the usual 2 crappy PC's in the 'business center' in most hotels these days. Seems like something you could sell to Virgin-Atlantic though.
-Luke.
Yep. VMs can do most of this. Just not all of it yet.
As for the airplanes and hotels thing, I doubt it'll happen any time soon, but I bet it'll happen at some point.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 5, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Alvin Ramard (4/5/2010)
OS/2 = 1/2 * OS = half an operationg system 😀
LOL.... Good answer to the OS/2 fanatics that would refer to "win-doze" or "isNT an OS".
And since we're reminiscing, I still have my first computer, a Northstar Horizon. It's an S-100 bus machine with a Z80 CPU built from a kit with a 360K floppy drive and genuine walnut-stained wooden case. It was about $2500 in 1980 and I put out another $800 or so and built a Heathkit CRT terminal to run the thing via an RS-232 serial cable. About a year or so later, I passed on Northstar's offer of a 5MB hard drive for another $2500.
----
edit: minor typo.
April 5, 2010 at 4:56 pm
I like the idea of carrying my environment on a flash drive. I just think I want to wait for USB 4.0 before I really do it and get some serious bandwidth to avoid delays.
Course by then i'll probably be running a Win 7 environment and not the current Win 11 one.
April 5, 2010 at 5:04 pm
That will be the day. Carry your OS around on a flashdrive, plug into any computer and immediately have all of your settings and apps. Would be extremely fast.
I would also enjoy neural computing. I could get a lot more done just by thinking it.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 5, 2010 at 7:13 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (4/5/2010)
I would also enjoy neural computing. I could get a lot more done just by thinking it.
Seems like a foolish risk. 😛
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
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