April 23, 2025 at 12:00 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Return to the Office Debate
April 23, 2025 at 6:41 am
We're the opposite of RTO. We've had all leases cancelled on all offices and have none to visit now. It's fine for us seniors who learned our craft with others, but youngsters have not had that camaradarie. Personally 1 or 2 days a week in the office suited me. I did find that being amongst others completely exhausted me after being used to WFH, however how else do you bond with the rest of your team?
I'd prefer hybrid to full WFH, and would probably struggle with a full office schedule, after being used to the benefits of being able to walk the dog on a late afternoon and finish tasks later on.
April 23, 2025 at 9:22 am
As long as we are productive we can work in any way we choose. Some work fully in the office, a minority prefer fully remote, most of us are hybrid. I find that with a couple of days in the office I'm more productive in the remaining 3 days at home than if I was fully remote.
I think it is because the office enforces breaks. As team we go and grab a coffee. I have to go for lunch within a defined time window, I have to leave to catch the train at a particular time.
At home I tend to work for long periods of time without a break so get burnt out.
Our directors are based in London yet they spend a couple of days in Manchester at least once every 2 weeks. Our investors and board visit the offices too. They don't ask anything of us that they would not do themselves with regard to office attendance.
As a senior I offer more flexibility because the role of a senior is to support the not-yet seniors and also to support business needs. I don't have to, but I have found that flexibility is a wise choice.
April 23, 2025 at 10:05 am
We have a hybrid approach. I prefer working at the office, but I only have a commute of 15 minutes and my home isn't really setup for remote work.
Many work from home, only going to the office on 2 days.
It is a blessing when you need a controlled environment. Also alleviates much of the commute and the flexible hours help with kids ...
April 23, 2025 at 10:23 am
My employer has gone to a full RTO with no exceptions. We'd originally started thinking we'd be doing 50% WFH / 50% in-office, but then the orders came down. So now, we can't even apply updates / patches to our servers from home, it has to be done in-office and off-hours. Which wouldn't be so bad, but our supervisor is an "old-school" worker, so we can't come in late the next day, or leave early the next day, either. We do get comp-time on a 1-for-1, but we're still stuck in the office either late in the day, or on a weekend.
Prior to the RTO, when we had limited telework (1 day a week,) we could telework to patch and get comp-time for it. Our customers were happy because we'd patch on weekends or later in the evenings, we were happy(ish) as we could do the work from home, but it is, what it is now.
I've found I can be more productive working from the peace and quiet of my home office (no kids, wife works in-office, and the cats ignore me most of the time,) and to even begin to get close in the office, I have to put on headphones, which to me, feels "rude" to my co-workers.
At this point, we're all hoping / crossing our fingers that things will at least go back to the 1 day a week telework in a few months...
April 23, 2025 at 12:15 pm
A few months ago my employer sent an email around to the IT department, reminding us that we are not full time remote workers but hybrid. I didn't reply to the person, but I wondered how they expect us to all be in where there aren't enough desks for everyone, and there's definitely not enough space in the car park. If they insisted that my team of 3 be in 5 days a week, they would lose us all. I'm in the office about once a week, and that's as much as I'm willing to do except in exceptional circumstances. As others have said, I also get much more work done at home as there are no distractions. Well, ok, the laundry, but you better believe I get that sorted and back at my desk without lingering over it, like I would a face-to-face conversation with someone in the office.
April 23, 2025 at 12:49 pm
I have about 5 years left and have worked over 25 years in an office where I have seen high levels of effectiveness. Since the rapid movement to 100% remote work my experience has been:
April 23, 2025 at 1:01 pm
I have about 5 years left and have worked over 25 years in an office where I have seen high levels of effectiveness. Since the rapid movement to 100% remote work my experience has been:
- Folks rarely report to meetings on time. Being 15 minutes or more late to a meeting is the norm.
- ...etc
It takes a lot of skill and confidence to manage people remotely. Frankly, I think that managerial disciplines and the necessary practises just weren't in place when COVID hit and I don't think it has got any better since.
When it comes to discipline I've learned that those whose job it is to enforce discipline have to sing with one voice. The fragmentation of employee locations reduces team behaviours and that affects employees who are managers at least as much as it affects employees who are staff.
April 23, 2025 at 1:14 pm
Thank you David. I have my better days when I am in the office. I believe in the traditional communication chart where words make up less than 10% of effective communication and the remaining effective communicating is largely non-verbal. I remind folks that traditionally hearing conversations while in the office has more than once caught people from violating policy that took months of collaboration with the organization to produce a win/win.
April 23, 2025 at 1:22 pm
This is one of the most important topics to me. Before the pandemic, I'd never heard of working remotely. I live in a state where the vast majority of companies hate working from home (WFH). Then the pandemic hit, and we were all ordered to WFH. WOW! The change for the positive in my life was HUGE!!!! Instead of a commute that took anywhere from 3.5 hours (on good days) to as much as 6 hours (on bad days) was so fantastic!!!!!!! I actually had a chance to relate to my wife and our kids. I was able to get a full night's sleep and still work longer hours than normal. I had, for the first time in many years, a good work-life balance. Every one of my colleagues agreed with me that this was much better.
But in 2023 upper management sent a one-line email ordered everyone to RTO full time, the following Monday. There was never any discussion, it was just an order, "Do it or else". It is basically a boomer power play.
I recognize that WFH or working remotely isn't for everyone. I recognize that some cannot work remotely. Even in a hybrid fashion. But the idea that everyone will only want to work in the office full time like I do, is equally wrong.
I am considering my options.
Rod
April 23, 2025 at 1:49 pm
So how do I feel about return-to-office mandates? Here are my thoughts:
My first experience with remote work was about 20 years ago when gasoline prices first got very high. I suggested that each of five DBAs work at home one day per week, saving 20% of our cost to commute. Very shortly, one of them was very difficult to contact, and was working for another company at the same time.
And then watching the insanity on the LinkedIn website, I often see 'coaches' encouraging others to take on a 'side hustle' and cheat on their employers.
In my admittedly humble opinion, your employer is buying your time, so you do as they demand. If they in fact do allow remote work and you have spare time, it still belongs to them. I'm sure there is always something you have done that you could do better, or you could take on things that will improve the situation for the employer.
Taking care of your children or walking your dog are not legitimate things to expect your employer to be paying you for.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
April 23, 2025 at 1:49 pm
duplicated again due to 'timeout'.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
April 23, 2025 at 2:25 pm
Interesting to hear thoughts, and I am very torn on the ways in which things are handled. I will say at Redgate we try to be reasonable. We ask, but don't require, teams to be in the office part of every week. Most tend to pick a day and come together to collaborate and work then. This is company-wide, and some people come in most days, or every day, and some come in less than once a week. We are flexible with people, understanding some have short commutes and some long.
I think we also have some guiding policies, like we remind people to be on time, to turn on cameras, to understand that we are a team.
That being said, Wed/Thur are busy days in the office and sometimes we don't have enough desks for everyone. We do have some pods for private meetings, and some common spaces where one can work, but it is crowded. That tends to discourage some people from coming in on Thur, and while it hasn't been a trend, I think we tend to bounce from over-full or less-than-expected numbers of people on those days. Hopefully the balance keeps working itself out.
In terms of time, most of us (and me throughout my career) are salaried. We've been paid xxx amount/week and expected to work. While it's easy to say that this is the company time, how much of it? Jason comes in to patch after hours or weekends. Is that his time or the company's? Worrying about someone doing laundry for 15 minutes during the day when they might work 15 minutes late isn't productive for anyone.
That being said. Meet your commitments. Be on time (or early), show your face, look professional, be polite, apologize for missteps and we can all get along fine.
April 23, 2025 at 2:29 pm
I spent all the first 36 years of my career working in the office and didn't think twice about the commute. When we all had to WFH in 2020, I hated it for the first few weeks, but once I got used to it, I loved it. Most of the 2.5 hours a day commute time I saved was spent working on the project we had on at the time, so the company benefitted. Now we've been mandated to work in the office 2 days a week and I wonder how I ever coped with the commute.
I agree with people who've pointed out that those in the early stages of their career are missing out on a lot of mentoring, but with us being in the office on different days that still isn't happening. Most of my team is based in different offices, so I still only really communicate online anyway.
The hybrid mandate isn't enough to make me change jobs for the 4 or so years I have left, but if the company went full RTO, that would definitely change.
Regarding the skiving that goes on; most managers that don't know what their team is doing wouldn't know even if they were in the office. I'm pretty sure the "busy" light shows in Teams regardless of whether you're working or online shopping.
April 23, 2025 at 2:49 pm
"... I think I'd go every day if my job required it. I'd get less done for the company each week, but I'd do it."
That is how I feel about RTO.
I currently WFH, only ben in the office about 6 times in the past 5 years. None to actually work from the office.
The constant noise in the office is distracting, the drop in's, the stopping in the halls to chat about anything. I would guess most of these happened on a daily basis when I was in the office.
Being late for meetings(not just me) was fairly common in the office because of the things I mentioned above. Being away from your desk and not seeing that notification of a meeting was common. Not while working from home. Ok, once, but that was only because the person moved the meeting up an hour while I was at lunch.
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