April 23, 2025 at 4:49 pm
A few years prior to COVID my company relocated the office from a suburban office park to a downtown Seattle high rise 25 miles away (conveniently 2 blocks from the new CEO's condo). My commute went from 10-15 minutes to an hour plus each way. The exodus was kept in check by moving to a hybrid model of up to two days a week WFH (days determined by team). In 2020 we we went full time WFH and to management's surprise, productivity went up dramatically. In 2023 the RTO order came down from senior management with less flexibility than existed prior to COVID. As our CIO put it "this was not a data-driven decision." Fortunately for me, my team was labeled an exception due to the amount of after hours work we do. Given how dispersed my team and the people I work with are, there is little to no value in going into the office. From an employee quality of life perspective, removing my commute removed the 2+ most unpleasant hours of my day. From the employer's perspective, I am more productive with WFH and the reduction in work stress means I am pushing off "retirement" five years past my plan in 2020.
April 23, 2025 at 5:42 pm
One thing I'm seeing come up in several of the responses has been the office being relocated at the same time (or close enough) to the RTO mandates.
If nothing else, while I don't have to worry about the office being relocated to be closer to the "boss" (there's already a VERY large (~6.5million sqft) office building near the boss' home), we do have the possibility of our location being "realigned and closed." Which, from what a couple co-workers were thinking, would mean I'd have to decide between (if offered) moving to Huntsville, AL (most likely relocation destination) or resigning / retiring and finding a new job.
Which is still rather ridiculous, with our team being able to absolutely work 100% remote...
But, the current mandate, "thou shalt work in the office 40hrs a week and any additional hours required must be in-office"...
April 23, 2025 at 6:35 pm
Thank you Steve Jones for today's topic. I am finding the replies informative. Mission statements from the TOP executive to the janitor or mailroom staff take a lot of collaboration and well invested time to get right. I have been at companies like Lands End in the 1990's where turn-over was super low and overall employee morale super high (one never gets 100% perfect).
I have seen strong Data Communities like PASS in Madison, WI and Chicago where people are eager to lead tech sessions and collaborate with others from government agencies, small businesses and large corporations. People helping people and organizations progressing in so many ways. In short a collaboration of inclusion within organizations and sharing talent in volunteer organizations like PASS where in my first Wisconsin SQL Saturday I meet this Colorado guy named Steve Jones. Hi by the way.
I personally prefer working in the office as I have experienced too much of ASYNC_NETWORK_IO wait time because work from home people have cocktail straw networks that force the firehouse database to wait a very long time for home networks to say "I finally got your results". In my almost 30 years I have found corporate networks and corporate data centers far outpace those of independent work from home folks. I have also notice laptops and other at home costs go up compared to that costs of meeting the same business needs in cubicle world.
I am said that Wisconsin nor Chicago have survived with PASS. For those in my area I am now in the largest chapter of DAMA. Come check us out at https://widama.org/
April 24, 2025 at 7:22 am
I certainly prefer the hybrid setup. It was never so much the being in the office I didn't like, more the commute. It felt like two hours a day of absolutely dead time. The office is only twenty miles from home as the crow flies but public transport isn't a viable option so I have to drive. In that time I achieve nothing, nothing for me, nothing for the company, nothing. My commute costs me money and time, it makes other peoples' (who possibly have no chance to work from home) worse and it produces unnecessary pollution. Actually being in the office isn't so bad. I do like the human interaction and collaboration during project work was certainly easier. The jury is out on whether I was more productive because there are different distractions. It might be standing gossiping in the kitchen for ten minutes rather than housework or somebody asking a 'quick question' then waiting by my desk until I find an answer, but there are still distractions.
However, right now, there is literally no work to do. We are coming to the end of a contract and things are being migrated off our systems. There are no changes, upgrades or anything in the pipeline so we are just keeping the lights on until the end. We've been let off the leash to do essentially whatever personal projects we want to improve our CVs and sharpen our skills. The official 'two days in the office' policy is still in place but we're only doing one. Management realise that there's no point enforcing the official line and have actually said, when we get notification of the final end date, we won't be asked to come to the office at all. From certain standpoints, the independent projects are easier to do at home because I can do them on my machines and network with no company infosec or technology restrictions. Motivation can be hard to come by though and I'm not sure I could keep this up indefinitely but it's certainly better doing 'nothing' at home rather.
Leaving isn't really on the cards because I'm in line for a mahoosive payout when we're made finally redundant. The last day of June is the current confirmed end date so I would be daft to go before then. However, there are rumours this will be pushed to at least the end of September. There's a deeply arcane contract between our company, the Government and the incoming provider that essentially means my employment is secure until the end date. For now, I'm just going to take advantage of the quiet time, learn as much as I can and enjoy the easiest money I'll ever make from home.
How to post a question to get the most help http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537
April 24, 2025 at 8:57 am
One aspect of a Return To Office shift is economics. Obviously there is the cost of commuting and office appropriate clothing. We used to shoulder that as just part of life but that is not what I mean.
A town/city thrives because people are in it, using its amenities. Office property prices are driven by demand. WFH presented a tremendous upheaval in city economics which I don't think the waves and ripples have fully dispersed yet.
When I go into the office (Manchester, UK) the city is not as busy as pre-COVID. I walk a mile across the city in the morning from one of its major railway stations and doubt if I pass 20 people on the way. The trams are half empty. The city is busier but not busy at lunch time. The trains aren't that busy on the way home.
I believe AI is going to provide another economic earthquake and quite a large one at that. So far I have not seen much on economic thought for a world where AI is prevalent.
April 24, 2025 at 11:25 am
A town/city thrives because people are in it, using its amenities.
I find I spend more in the local shops being at home. I'll go to the butcher more often and occasionally treat myself to a coffee in the independent cafes. It's not untrue to say I go to the pub more often because I'm not travelling home on Friday evening and I've not wasted beer money on petrol. That one's definitely swings and roundabouts.
How to post a question to get the most help http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537
April 24, 2025 at 8:15 pm
The changes in cities aren't that people don't go to local busineses, but they go to local ones near them. So many that depended on a volume of business, like a city cetre, are struggling. Rents haven't gone down, so it can be hard.
This might be a net good for shops near where people live, but it's hard to know. As David says, this hasn't quite shaken out yet.
April 24, 2025 at 9:19 pm
I do hope the hybrid model stays longer. Like everyone stated, the cost of our time to commute to the office, cost (Calgary has one if not the highest downtown parking rate in North America). As a DBA, I am always doing stuff all different times of the work week. Weekends, evenings, managing alerts. I enjoy the flexiblility of being home 3 days a week and not having to deal with the stress of the commute and having more home time with the family!
April 25, 2025 at 12:28 pm
Before I even heard of COVID there were plans to do Hybrid. Again effective collaboration takes time and when done right produces "What is the problem you are trying to solve". With 100% work from home most of what I get is people in crises mode and want to know how to do X or the hammer approach like kill a blocking session or restart the server. Those are all symptoms and not root cause analysis.
Prior to the word COVID we were putting together, after the many needed meetings and the work properly defined rules for implementation by having folks work from home. Too often implementation time had too many office interruptions. By having some of your implementation staff work from home it was designed to meet or improve delivery time.
April 29, 2025 at 5:27 pm
I worked from home decades ago when I was in an office where there were plenty of other employees in my company. Still, I had no interactions with them (I was working on developing software to help run our IT department, which was located a 6-hour drive away, and everyone else worked in the company's main line of business). I had more internet bandwidth from home than at the remote office where I worked until my manager retired (replaced by a guy at the main office).
I'm at a different company now, and started working from home in 2019 when the other nine members of my work team (in an office of 200+ people) were laid off, resulting from all development work being outsourced. When Covid hit, everyone went to WFH, and eventually the policy evolved into "work from the office if you want to, but we're OK with WFH". During that time, the office relocated from the burb near me to a much smaller space downtown because so many fewer people wanted to RTO, and they got a great deal on the space. In downtown Columbus, Ohio, some large office buildings are being converted to residential ones because of the massive drop in demand for office space.
In both companies, I ended up working on my own in an office of co-employees but not coworkers. Working in the office provided all the drawbacks and no collaboration benefits noted by others. I am so very much happier working from home. My current employer insists that I work 40 hours per week (no more, no less) even though I am salaried, but outside of a few hours per day of needed overlap with other remote coworkers, I can flex which hours I work without a set schedule. It is simply another flex if I need to work outside my preferred days or hours for a release.
We have found that the vast majority of our 100+ member IT Team (of which I am a part) are self-motivated, talented, and responsible people; that's why we hired them. I doubt more than 5% choose to work from one of our offices even part of their time, with the rest working from home. We collaborate well using Teams, even informally ("Can I call you to talk for a minute?"). The company is delighted with the savings on office leases.
If I had any local coworkers, I would probably choose to go into the office for a few hours on one day a week, mostly to have lunch together. But the nearest people I often collaborate with now are in Europe or Australia.
May 16, 2025 at 4:56 pm
Bad news for me, my company has decided that if you live within 30 miles of the office you have to come in at least two days a week.
There is an exception form we can fill out, but not guaranteed you will get it.
I'm trying to point out all of the work I've been able to do over the past 5 years from home. And all of the extra time I'm able to give the company when I'm not coming in. How I start some times earlier and stay logged in later than I need to. I have over 35 years of experience, almost 9 with this company. All of my appraisals show I'm one of our top performers.
Hopefully I can get it approved. Any thoughts on what else I should point out?
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
May 16, 2025 at 9:21 pm
I feel for you, @Below86. I'd never heard of working from home (WFH) until the COVID pandemic. Once it happened, we were ordered to WFH full time, and I totally and completely loved it. With my employer you have to commute to the office if you're 60 miles or less from there, as the crow flies. My commute would take me further, but that doesn't count. Anyway, I put in a lot of hours during the pandemic. However, that's in the past, but even today when I am forced to WFH I start earlier than normal and stay at it later. (I was forced to WFH today because of an HVAC issue to the building.) I believe I am a top performer but am not sure. I work in state government, so it isn't hard to be a top performer.
Anyway, the vast majority of employers in my state, both in the public and private sectors, are adamantly opposed to WFH. And most aren't interested in listening to your arguments, so sorry, I cannot give you any advice as none of the arguments, no matter how valid and backed by research, will not be considered.
Rod
May 16, 2025 at 9:34 pm
I might suggest you document things that you've done during commute hours or after hours. Point out that some of these things might not be done if you lose time to commuting. The after hours stuff might not matter, but being responsive quickly is a savings to the business, so catching things that you might not get to if you were driving is good.
If your boss is good, then you might apply some pressure that you are less willing to do after hours things or might look to move on. Have to trust this won't backfire, so be careful.
May 16, 2025 at 9:42 pm
Below86 I wish I could use a situation that arose during 2020 as a reason to keep / get back telework, but I don't plan to break my other wrist any time soon! LoL
In all seriousness, in June 2020 I was out getting some exercise after work, went down, and broke my wrist (I've got 2 plates in it now,) yet kept working as we were in the midst of a BIG migration. Of course, if my boss wanted to be mean, he could point out that I managed to put out the same amount and quality of work with one hand, so now that I've got two good hands, I should be putting out twice as much! LoL
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