January 8, 2021 at 9:10 pm
ZZartin wrote:Lynn Pettis wrote:ZZartin wrote:Lynn Pettis wrote:I don't agree with many things Trump has said, but that is probably true of many people. I do, however, know that I have done better under four years of Trump than 8 years under Obama. I am not looking forward to what the next two years have instore for us.
The only benefit I got from trump was a $1000 bonus check 4 years ago or so because of his tax cuts. And that really doesn't do anything to offset the absolute shit show the last year has been under his gross mismanagement of the pandemic.
Let's see. The tax cuts put more money into my bank account every payday. That adds up over time. I will say I was lucky that I was already divorced when his tax cuts went into affect because it did change how spousal support was taxed. But that was a government still trying to collect as much in taxes as it could. Any bonuses I got in these last four years were either company bonuses based on company performance or my personal performance on a specific issue or issues. His tax cuts didn't play a part in those payments.
The pandemic, his mismanagement? Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. He may have done some things wrong, but he also did other things right. If you are going to call him out for what he did wrong, be sure to call out the doctorial governors at the state level as well. Both sides politicized the pandemic. And let's not forget Pelosi admitting she didn't want to put out a second stimulus package before the election. And look what was in the latest stimulus package. Really, billions of dollars to foreign governments for things that aren't even related to the pandemic? Sorry, but there is enough wrong to go around to everyone in power.
Ultimately he was the president and he did virtually nothing right in the last year in regards to the pandemic. He couldn't even be bothered to do the bare minimum like ask people wear masks.
Depending on what you read there are those that tout its effectiveness and just as many the doubt its effectiveness.
Depending on what you read the earth is flat.
But I guess maybe covid is just caused by bad miasmas and there's nothing that could possibly be done about it.
January 8, 2021 at 9:12 pm
The moron knew last January that it was going to be bad(Covid), but he kept saying it would go away. And his followers believe anything that comes out of his mouth. If he would have done his duty he would have been honest. For god sakes he's on tape saying it, but I guess we should ignore that, like other facts.
As my grandpa used to say "you can't fix stupid". And I would add "you can't argue with stupid".
Yeah but was it really stupidity, or (in my opinion) more likely selfish malice? After all, wasn't he caught on tape early in the year admitting the actual dangers, completely contradicting what he told the public?
January 8, 2021 at 9:13 pm
The moron knew last January that it was going to be bad(Covid), but he kept saying it would go away. And his followers believe anything that comes out of his mouth. If he would have done his duty he would have been honest. For god sakes he's on tape saying it, but I guess we should ignore that, like other facts.
As my grandpa used to say "you can't fix stupid". And I would add "you can't argue with stupid".
Sure. But then how about putting the blame back on China. They severely restricted travel internally when the breakout occurred in Wuhan. Why didn't they also restrict international travel at the same time? That would have helped contain the spread of the virus as well. Again, there is enough blame to around, stop trying to blame one person.
January 8, 2021 at 9:13 pm
Can we stop the political discussions?
Both parties have plenty of problems and we shouldn't be discussing who's worse.
January 8, 2021 at 9:17 pm
Lynn Pettis wrote:ZZartin wrote:Lynn Pettis wrote:below86 wrote:Lynn Pettis wrote:Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. First, he wasn't my first choice. Second, there was no way on Gods green earth I was voting for an unindicted, unconvicted felon for President. I am sorry if there are those of you who disagree, but Hillary Clinton and her entire staff that worked for her when she was Secretary of State should be be in prison for mishandling classified information. Period. Any of us on this thread or forum had done what she and her staff did would be prison. We would also, upon release, more than likely unable to obtain any sort of government clearance. And her saying she wasn't told, horse manure. Anyone who has a security clearance goes through mandatory annual training. If we don't complete the training, we lose are clearance and more than likely our job. We need to hold all government officials to this standard, elected and appointed. Period.
I don't agree with many things Trump has said, but that is probably true of many people. I do, however, know that I have done better under four years of Trump than 8 years under Obama. I am not looking forward to what the next two years have instore for us.
So many lies, I see why you like the 'dictator'. Why isn't he held to the same standards? If it was a democ0art in office and tried to pull a coup like T*** did, the republicans would be loosing their mind and would have already impeached the president.
Open your eyes, don't be sheep.
Says the sheep. He is as much a dictator as Former President Obama.
I don't agree with his actions after the election, but I do agree that there needs to be an investigation into the election, not to over turn it but to ensure that the problems that occurred this year don't happen again in future years.
And, by the way, no previous President had to put up with fours years of obstruction like President Trump. The Democrats didn't accept the results of the 2016 election, so how is that any different from this year?
We should have a complete tear down of the entire voting system from top to bottom, not just this specific election. At least in this election the popular vote actually aligned with the electoral college vote unlike certain other elections....
You do realize that we don't elect the President based on a single National Election or the popular vote. In fact, at one time we didn't even vote for the President and/or Vice President, we voted for Electors who then gathered and actually debated and argued over who would become the President and the Vice President. Today it is 50 separate and independent State elections for the President. You want the election of the President to be purely on the populare vote? Well, then California and New York will be the deciding factor in future elections. The founders of our country established the Electoral College to keep the more populous States from dominating the electoral process. Without it we wouldn't even be here now as the Southern States would not have joined the Union after the Revolutionary War because that was their fear, that the North would dominate the electoral process.
I fully realize that's how the current system works. And the way the current system works is that people in say Texas don't get to whine and complain about how say Pennsylvania conducts their election just because they don't like the results.
I will agree with that. Each State makes its own rules. I may not like the jungle primary in California, but that is up to California and the people that live there.
January 8, 2021 at 9:19 pm
below86 wrote:The moron knew last January that it was going to be bad(Covid), but he kept saying it would go away. And his followers believe anything that comes out of his mouth. If he would have done his duty he would have been honest. For god sakes he's on tape saying it, but I guess we should ignore that, like other facts.
As my grandpa used to say "you can't fix stupid". And I would add "you can't argue with stupid".
Yeah but was it really stupidity, or (in my opinion) more likely selfish malice? After all, wasn't he caught on tape early in the year admitting the actual dangers, completely contradicting what he told the public?
Yes, and then after catching it probably because he largely flaunted any kind of preventative measures privately as much as publicly he then proceeded to get much much better medical care than virtually anyone else would.
January 8, 2021 at 9:25 pm
Can we stop the political discussions? Both parties have plenty of problems and we shouldn't be discussing who's worse.
You have a point, I've often felt that political discussions should be reserved for the folks with the mental aptitude to conduct a credible debate. We may be in short supply on that count LOLOL especially when we get to the flat earth theory, I mean I just can't buy into it, for instance, how does the ocean just not fall off the edge of the planet's disc? And if it does, where does it fall TO????
January 8, 2021 at 9:41 pm
Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.
So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.
My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.
No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.
So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.
January 8, 2021 at 9:53 pm
Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.
So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.
My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.
No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.
So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.
Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.
This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.
*shrug* whadya gonna do?
January 8, 2021 at 10:01 pm
...
So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.
...
Covid cases that I know personally? None.
January 8, 2021 at 10:07 pm
Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.
So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.
My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.
No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.
So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.
Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.
This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.
*shrug* whadya gonna do?
The real problem is people thinking you can save everyone. We can't save everyone from the Flu, what makes people think we could save everyone from Covid?
January 8, 2021 at 10:28 pm
x wrote:Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.
So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.
My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.
No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.
So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.
Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.
This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.
*shrug* whadya gonna do?
The real problem is people thinking you can save everyone. We can't save everyone from the Flu, what makes people think we could save everyone from Covid?
I like the fact that you posted this, you thinking that you have identified the "real problem", its very validating to me 🙂
Cheers!
January 8, 2021 at 11:47 pm
Since they can ‘mandate’, testing could be done for some of the answers by having everyone going into a Costco. They will shop there anyways. Some are bound to have covid. Follow up will show who it may have spread to. You can note what type of mask they had.
Not like you are forcing them to be exposed, but much could be gathered. The only thing you are doing is a mandatory test to enter the store - which they were going to do anyways.
Not purely scientific, but a lot better than assuming everyone has covid and can spread it. Which seems to be working not so well. At the very least, you have a much truer level of ‘random’ testing, and a more educated guess of how many are out and about when they shouldn’t be.
The real problem is not finding ways to leverage what we can. There didn’t seem to be a shortage of people willing to sign up for vaccine trials......
January 9, 2021 at 12:15 am
Since they can ‘mandate’, testing could be done for some of the answers by having everyone going into a Costco. They will shop there anyways. Some are bound to have covid. Follow up will show who it may have spread to. You can note what type of mask they had. Not like you are forcing them to be exposed, but much could be gathered. The only thing you are doing is a mandatory test to enter the store - which they were going to do anyways.
Not purely scientific, but a lot better than assuming everyone has covid and can spread it. Which seems to be working not so well. At the very least, you have a much truer level of ‘random’ testing, and a more educated guess of how many are out and about when they shouldn’t be.
The real problem is not finding ways to leverage what we can. There didn’t seem to be a shortage of people willing to sign up for vaccine trials......
Well, not everyone, at least when it comes to Costco or Sam's Club. I don't have a membership for either of them. I also rarely shop at Walmart right now, just when I need something I can't get at King Soopers (Kroger) or Safeway (Albertsons).
January 9, 2021 at 12:39 am
about masks:
I just seem to get the sense that this issue has been studied far beyond that. Maybe its just me reading studies about masks and covid19 as much as I have, I think the reasoning is like I said, when you weigh the costs and benefits, the potential benefits of universal mask wearing just outweighs the cost.
So what I think has been done is to study the possibility of benefits to mask wearing in the case of covid19, and I gotta tell you, I'm not getting all this uncertainty about effectiveness from my reading compared to what I sense you are getting. I'm not saying that more tests aren't interesting, I'm saying that in my opinion, the guys who know about infectious disease have pretty much already returned a pretty darn good case.
Now I know, all hail Gail Shaw for the "scientific method" thing. There is no doubt that the scientific method works when it works. The thing is, the threadisens of the world now seem to think that if you cannot apply the scientific method to a problem, then the problem cannot be addressed.
What I think has happened with masks is that its been studied to pieces but apparently not to some absurd threshold that some folks feel it needs to be. Nothing short of a suitable sample size to be sprayed with inoculum is going to be good enough, especially with how this has been politicized, folks who cannot bear this loss of freedom have no end of friendly sources of "information" that they can use to validate their views.
Heck when it comes down to masks, I don't even think its the discomfort or inconvenience, I think its because of again, politics.
Now I gotta tell you, I think other folks have a point. SSC has a hard time with subjective topics like politics. The trouble is, we have folks that will turn anything into politics, including face masks, these folks are encroaching on all areas of science and I'm not so sure that their resumes are up to the task. So this also means for me that science should be a little off topic here too, because I have a feeling that this site isn't up to it.
I gotta tell you, I've always been offended by bad science. So how about along with the prohibition on politics, we consider one on science too? Hey, I'm just asking 🙂
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