The Certification Debate
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I for one despise the certification process as just another money making scheme for M'soft.
I get really annoyed when I go to a class and they gear it to the test since I have never bothered to get certified.
I go to the classes so I can learn a new product and how to use it, not to take a test to prove to someone I can absorb and regurgitate knowledge.
As everyone who has ever taking a drivers exam can testify to, just passing a basic knowledge and skills test does not make you a good driver. So to with the certification exams.
The only value I see is in the case of a consultant that moves around a lot and needs to demonstrate to perspective employers that they have the basics down.
But after a few years of experience I think the certs are a waste of time and money.
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I think there are two ways that certification can be useful.
The first way is as a starting point for further growth. One can take a brief, whirlwind class that shows the general areas involved with a topic (SQL in our case), and then see how well the test goes. But that doesn't mean that a person who has gained the certification knows much about the real world parts of the topic.
The second way is as a confirmation of skills for a person who does have a lot of real-world experience. In this case, a certification test should be harder, and passing should reflect significant real-world understanding.
I don't know how many certification programs are arranged this way - this is just my opinion about how they can be useful. I would call the first way "Certified Beginner" and the second way "Certified Master."
Because I recently moved into a DBA role, I approached the certification I got as "certified beginner." That opened me up to some flack on the forums - people wondering how I could be certified without knowing that the modulo operator is %, etc. - but I'm taking it in stride as a lesson learned and more opportunity for growth.
I did not have any illusions that being certified would automatically qualify me as a senior expert DBA, however, because I know enough to know how much there is to know, to coin (or butcher) a phrase.
I guess the problem is, if there were such a two-track system of certification, it would hurt employment chances for people who were identified in the "certified beginner" track. But if there were more employers willing to set up mentorship/apprenticeship jobs, there would be a place for those people.
After all, I don't think anyone benefits from someone who gets a quick certification and then (because certifications are not necessarily ranked) has a prospective employer believe that they are getting a certified master when they are getting a certified beginner. I bet that rarely works out. And I think that bait and switch is what hurts the reputability of certifications more than the certifications themselves.
Just my two cents.
P.S. Another way to help "certified beginner" certifications is to encourage employers to say, "Look, you just got this certification, and we understand you are going to be a junior DBA and not the manager or expert or anything like that. BUT we will review and keep a copy of the training syllabus for your certification, and we expect that you will go through 3 or 5 (or whatever) of the certification topics and figure out a real-world way to implement them in the next year (or 6 months, etc.)." That might start to bridge the gap from theory to practice for aspiring DBAs.
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A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html -
I think MS has actually diluted the value of their certifications by introducing so many new certs. Much like the way they have introduced multiple editions of Vista (4), Office 2007 (8), SQL Server 2005 (6), and Windows Server 2003 (7).
When I started studying for my certification (MCSD) there were four types of Microsoft Certified Professionals: MCSE, MCSD, MCDBA, and MCT. Each was clearly defined and easily understood: network engineer, developer, DBA, trainer.
Today you also have the MSBC, MCITP, MCPD, MCTS, MCDST, MCSA, MCAD, MCLC, MOS, and MCA. And if you are a Microsoft Partner, there are 13 different "competencies" that you can earn.
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I think that certification is a nice feather in your cap but to me if you want something that states that you are good get a college degree.
Certification can also be good if you have a non-technical degree or a trying to change directions.
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When learning to fly you must take lessons from a CFI. I made the mistake of saying, "Oh, you're a Certified Flight Instructor." I thought she was going to throw the (log) book at me. "Flight instructors are certificated, meat is certified." Here endeth the lesson.
I've been licensed in lots of ways. It's sort of the same thing as certification. You can do the job before getting you certification. You must not do the job before getting your license. Sometimes I think that developers and DBA's should be licensed. Too much government intervention here, though.
ATBCharles Kincaid
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Personally, I would like to learn from SSC site, other DBA sites, and whitepapers. There are a lot of good resources from very good DBAs and they are much better and useful than the study materials for certification.
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Certification may not be the best measure of whether to hire someone, but don't bash the Microsoft Official Curriculum. In my experience these classes are taught by an experienced and certified instructor and the courses do provide a great basic education. I attended 2786 and 2787 last year at the request of my employer and although 95% of the course simply reinforced my basic knowledge of SQL 2005, a discussion with the trainer and class led me to a solution for my developers to kill their own sessions using Service Broker and a little bit of coding. I have always seen Service Broker as an application technology, not as a management technology. I would have never explored this option if not for the course. So while the value of certification may be an endless debate, I believe that the MOC courses are valuable even for those of us with years of experience.
Joshua Perry
http://www.greenarrow.net -
I have a college degree from 1972, does that make me "good"?
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I have a university degree, a Master degree, MCDBA and MCITP certifications. All gained in this millennium, anyone got a job?
Gethyn Elliswww.gethynellis.com
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Someone brought up flying... and I think some parralels could be drawn up here. I have my commercial, instrument rating, Single Engine Land and Multi Engine Land. On all of these there are multiple steps to become certified (I have never heard a CFI being refered to as Certificated...). The final steps are a Written Test that you have to pass before they allow you to take an Oral Exam with a live person and finally a Flight test.
Maybe for a real DBA certification we need more like that. I.e. prove in real world (simulated) conditions that you know what you are doing?
I have taken one test, can't even remember which one it was but think something like "Implementing Databases using SQL 7". Never been asked about it, but my (then) consulting company needed someone to have it to maintain their status with MS.
Back during the .com boom I regularly screened resumes. I saw a lot of resumes comming trough my inbox and after a while I started to reject automatically any resume that had MS Certifications listed first/early....
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Try http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22certificated+flight+instructor%22 I'm grounded for medical reasons. Passed the ground school and all the writtens. Multiple times in fact.
I used to review resumes too. I used to down rate any with Comp Sci majors, and for much the same reasons. They cold tell you how to pour water out of a boot but had no clue as to why one would want to do that.
ATBCharles Kincaid
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The problem is software changes much quicker than planes, so I'm not sure how well certification measures up. I'm still voting for more narrow certs. The problem with an MCSE is that people expected me to know SQL Server, AND AD, AND Exchange, and DFS, and dfs, and more. I'd rather take an SSIS cert or an admin cert, etc.
I think there often are qualified instructors, but not always. I've seen classes taught by MCTs and they weren't experts in that area. I have a friend, MCSE, smart guy, but he's mostly been a general Windows and web admin. But they ran him through a quick training class to get him ready to teach SQL. As much as I like hi mand think he's a smart guy, he's not a DBA.
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This is a great 'can of worms. ... I personaly do not put faith in certs for many of the reasons stated so I will not belabor the point. I have taken many training courses over 25 years and have been mentored to and mentored others. Throughout my travels I have one question test that any DBA MUST pass. I will not state the question but more precisely the correct answer to it:
I do not know the answer now but I will find the solution for your situation !
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
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I like that answer, Rudy! My similar favorite is "I don't know, but here's what I'm doing to find out!".
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
I'd also like to throw my hat in the ring with the others that expressed some disappointment in certs... or rather I should say in some of the people that managed to get certified. I've worked with 3 people touting MS certs for SQL Server and none of them could code their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag. And, they were bloody well lazy!
With very great appologies to the "lot", I realize that there are a lot of very skilled individuals that do have certs, but the certs have become a lot less important to me than the ability to answer questions during an interview. I've also learned that attitude can be much more powerful than certs and makes up a great deal for some lack of knowledge. Like Rudy said, I want to have someone demonstrate that if they don't know the answer to something, that they'll be motivated enough to find out in some short time.
On the other hand, I also realize that certs are frequently an introduction to something else... they can be the first valued step in learning something more. But, they're definitely not the "Ninja" training I once believed them to be.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
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