November 18, 2010 at 7:17 am
We've only ever used #3, but it does have shortcomings. However, until we get more than 10 people in the door at meetings, I don't plan on worrying about those shortcomings.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
November 18, 2010 at 7:23 am
For our chapter, the sponsor pays expenses directly. But then again, we have Brian Knight's company sponsoring most of our meetings, so we are kind of cheating. Occasionally the staffing firms sponsor, and they also pay directly.
But given the whole SQL Saturday issue, and with SQL Rally coming up, I would definitely advise going with #1. Incorporate, but make sure the rules of incorporation allow you to pass leadership of the chapter to someone else, or the Corporation may break when you move / pursue other activities.
The problem with # 2 is that if something goes wrong (someone sues), you're personally on the hook for all monetary damages since you've been using your checking account to take care of the expenses. In fact, this problem could present in option # 1 if you incorporate wrong.
The problem with # 3 is convincing sponsors it's worth it to pay expenses up front. And getting the sponsors to begin with.
November 18, 2010 at 7:55 am
ALZDBA (11/18/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/17/2010)
For any chapter leaders that may not be on Twitter but are here, I started a thread on the chapter leaders forum about handling money, http://tinyurl.com/3ywxkbq. I'm looking for comments.Tried to view your link, but got "access denied for this part of the portal".
Am I now:
- registered on a black list ??
- About ready to be evicted ??
:hehe: :rolleyes:
Curiosity killed the cat :w00t:
Isn't that section only available to PASS Chapter leaders?
Edit: Oops, already answered. Yes. This is in the PASS Chapter leaders area.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 18, 2010 at 7:57 am
Andy talked about that a bit when he blogged about handing you the reins for oPass, and mentioned PASS holding funds for all chapters, don't suppose he's had any luck making that happen? Seems like that might solve some of your issues, since you wouldn't have to incur the overhead of incorporating, but could still have a budget.
Exploration of that idea probably would not be a quick fix, but seems like it would make sense (to me) in the long run.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 18, 2010 at 8:02 am
GilaMonster (11/18/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/17/2010)
I love finding out that a project has a dependency on a task assigned to you - when everything else is done and ready to be deployed. Communication, gotta love it.Even my project from hell hasn't had that happen.
Regular occurrence here. Informing powers that be of the problem hasn't helped. And as Wayne alluded - it helps contribute to burn out.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 18, 2010 at 8:14 am
Jack Corbett (11/18/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/17/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/17/2010)
For any chapter leaders that may not be on Twitter but are here, I started a thread on the chapter leaders forum about handling money, http://tinyurl.com/3ywxkbq. I'm looking for comments.Any thoughts you can share? Apparently if you were thinking of starting a chapter or getting involved, you can't be involved or even view that discussion.
Sure, I'll share because you do have to be a chapter leader to access that portion of the PASS web site. Probably a former chapter leader as well because I can't imagine that they are going to be up to date.
Here's the issue as I see it. Chapters need money to pay for food, drinks, and in many cases space. We get the money from sponsors and there is limited guidance on how to handle the money. Essentially you have 3 options (I don't know how things would need to be done outside the US):
1. Incorporate and have a corporate back account and have an accountant handle the money. The downside to this is that it adds expenses and complexity.
2. Have a person handle the money and pay taxes on it as income. The downsides are that you have to trust the person doing it and the person needs to be willing to do it.
3. Sponsors directly pay expenses. The downsides to this are that they sponsors need to be willing and able to do it, you don't then have any discretionary funds for extras like paying a speaker's expenses, and if you have a SQLSaturday how do you handle any "profit" from the event?
I have some unique issues that make it difficult for me to handle the money and we currently have a positive balance due to a successfully SQLSaturday.
This is one area that I believe PASS needs to provide more guidance and assistance. I'm defintely interested in what you all might have to say.
We use option 3.
One thing to keep in mind regarding getting the group registered with any non-profit type status in the USA. The rules/process for doing this are different for each states.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 18, 2010 at 8:29 am
Alvin Ramard (11/18/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/18/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/17/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/17/2010)
For any chapter leaders that may not be on Twitter but are here, I started a thread on the chapter leaders forum about handling money, http://tinyurl.com/3ywxkbq. I'm looking for comments.Any thoughts you can share? Apparently if you were thinking of starting a chapter or getting involved, you can't be involved or even view that discussion.
Sure, I'll share because you do have to be a chapter leader to access that portion of the PASS web site. Probably a former chapter leader as well because I can't imagine that they are going to be up to date.
Here's the issue as I see it. Chapters need money to pay for food, drinks, and in many cases space. We get the money from sponsors and there is limited guidance on how to handle the money. Essentially you have 3 options (I don't know how things would need to be done outside the US):
1. Incorporate and have a corporate back account and have an accountant handle the money. The downside to this is that it adds expenses and complexity.
2. Have a person handle the money and pay taxes on it as income. The downsides are that you have to trust the person doing it and the person needs to be willing to do it.
3. Sponsors directly pay expenses. The downsides to this are that they sponsors need to be willing and able to do it, you don't then have any discretionary funds for extras like paying a speaker's expenses, and if you have a SQLSaturday how do you handle any "profit" from the event?
I have some unique issues that make it difficult for me to handle the money and we currently have a positive balance due to a successfully SQLSaturday.
This is one area that I believe PASS needs to provide more guidance and assistance. I'm defintely interested in what you all might have to say.
We use option 3.
One thing to keep in mind regarding getting the group registered with any non-profit type status in the USA. The rules/process for doing this are different for each states.
Yet another reason for PASS HQ to handle that part, then just pass out the dough.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 18, 2010 at 9:05 am
Alvin Ramard (11/18/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/18/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/17/2010)
Jack Corbett (11/17/2010)
For any chapter leaders that may not be on Twitter but are here, I started a thread on the chapter leaders forum about handling money, http://tinyurl.com/3ywxkbq. I'm looking for comments.Any thoughts you can share? Apparently if you were thinking of starting a chapter or getting involved, you can't be involved or even view that discussion.
Sure, I'll share because you do have to be a chapter leader to access that portion of the PASS web site. Probably a former chapter leader as well because I can't imagine that they are going to be up to date.
Here's the issue as I see it. Chapters need money to pay for food, drinks, and in many cases space. We get the money from sponsors and there is limited guidance on how to handle the money. Essentially you have 3 options (I don't know how things would need to be done outside the US):
1. Incorporate and have a corporate back account and have an accountant handle the money. The downside to this is that it adds expenses and complexity.
2. Have a person handle the money and pay taxes on it as income. The downsides are that you have to trust the person doing it and the person needs to be willing to do it.
3. Sponsors directly pay expenses. The downsides to this are that they sponsors need to be willing and able to do it, you don't then have any discretionary funds for extras like paying a speaker's expenses, and if you have a SQLSaturday how do you handle any "profit" from the event?
I have some unique issues that make it difficult for me to handle the money and we currently have a positive balance due to a successfully SQLSaturday.
This is one area that I believe PASS needs to provide more guidance and assistance. I'm defintely interested in what you all might have to say.
We use option 3.
One thing to keep in mind regarding getting the group registered with any non-profit type status in the USA. The rules/process for doing this are different for each states.
As do we.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 18, 2010 at 10:23 am
I hate to say it, but if PASS HQ handles the money, then there are going to be issues.
1) Chapters will have to jump through hoops to get their funds, mainly because they'll need to supply proof that they're using the money for its stated purpose and PASS HQ will be responsible for maintaining all necessary paperwork for the IRS.
2) Different chapters won't use funds evenly. One chapter may only need $60.00 for a meet while another chapter needs $500.00.
3) Some chapters can't (or won't be able to) scare up sponsors to contribute.
2 & 3 will lead to resentment amongst chapters once people figure out who's getting the big bulk of the money, who's not getting much funds, and who's supposedly leaching off the system.
4) PASS HQ will have to have paid employees (I don't know if they currently do or not) to maintain the funds, push out an annual report, and coordinate audits with the accountant.
I only mention 2 & 3 because I've seen it happen in other organizations. Maybe there's a way to overcome that with PASS and I'm just foreseeing trouble that won't exist. But since we're on the discussion, I thought I'd mention it.
November 18, 2010 at 10:28 am
Brandie Tarvin (11/18/2010)
I hate to say it, but if PASS HQ handles the money, then there are going to be issues.1) Chapters will have to jump through hoops to get their funds, mainly because they'll need to supply proof that they're using the money for its stated purpose and PASS HQ will be responsible for maintaining all necessary paperwork for the IRS.
2) Different chapters won't use funds evenly. One chapter may only need $60.00 for a meet while another chapter needs $500.00.
3) Some chapters can't (or won't be able to) scare up sponsors to contribute.
2 & 3 will lead to resentment amongst chapters once people figure out who's getting the big bulk of the money, who's not getting much funds, and who's supposedly leaching off the system.
4) PASS HQ will have to have paid employees (I don't know if they currently do or not) to maintain the funds, push out an annual report, and coordinate audits with the accountant.
I only mention 2 & 3 because I've seen it happen in other organizations. Maybe there's a way to overcome that with PASS and I'm just foreseeing trouble that won't exist. But since we're on the discussion, I thought I'd mention it.
All good points, but it seems there are "issues" now, so it'd just be different issues. However, each chapter would have the same issues, so perhaps they could be ironed out? In an ideal world, 2 & 3 would then lead to a discussion of how to streamline chapter meetings to be most effective, and become a resource rather than a detriment. (e.g. prompting sessions like "here's why I am so effective at getting sponsers, and you can be too","How to have a chapter meeting on a shoestring budget", "How do you get swag with Brandie's face on it", etc)
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 18, 2010 at 10:40 am
I think a better way for PASS and/or INETA to help the chapters with banks account would be to provide some legal help for the chapters to obtain their "non-profit" status and tax id. Once that's done it's a fairly simple process for the chapters to get their own bank account(s).
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 18, 2010 at 10:46 am
Sure, I'll share because you do have to be a chapter leader to access that portion of the PASS web site. Probably a former chapter leader as well because I can't imagine that they are going to be up to date.
Here's the issue as I see it. Chapters need money to pay for food, drinks, and in many cases space. We get the money from sponsors and there is limited guidance on how to handle the money. Essentially you have 3 options (I don't know how things would need to be done outside the US):
1. Incorporate and have a corporate back account and have an accountant handle the money. The downside to this is that it adds expenses and complexity.
2. Have a person handle the money and pay taxes on it as income. The downsides are that you have to trust the person doing it and the person needs to be willing to do it.
3. Sponsors directly pay expenses. The downsides to this are that they sponsors need to be willing and able to do it, you don't then have any discretionary funds for extras like paying a speaker's expenses, and if you have a SQLSaturday how do you handle any "profit" from the event?
I have some unique issues that make it difficult for me to handle the money and we currently have a positive balance due to a successfully SQLSaturday.
This is one area that I believe PASS needs to provide more guidance and assistance. I'm defintely interested in what you all might have to say.
Jack talk with Allen White if you can reference:
Onsig - Ohio North User Group for the SQL Saturday event and the user group is forming a nonprofit corporation, and you might want to investigate that path for your user group.
PASS by the way has a "standard" set of incorporation papers, (which in our case required slight modification). These papers provide for a "Board of Directors" a "Treasurer" and a procedure of checks and balances to insure that any funds collected/spent are correct and proper.
Then there is the filing fee ($200 comes to mind) for the state of Ohio's tax exempt status, then file for a Federal tax exemption - no cost. All in all a long need to dot the i's and cross the t's.
But when completed will be worth the effort.
November 18, 2010 at 12:27 pm
bitbucket-25253 (11/18/2010)
Then there is the filing fee ($200 comes to mind) for the state of Ohio's tax exempt status, then file for a Federal tax exemption - no cost. All in all a long need to dot the i's and cross the t's.
Ouch.
Jack, FYI: I've checked into incorporating for other reasons and Florida is much cheaper than that. That's what we get for living in one of the top 3 business-friendly states. @=)
Nevada is another, and I can't remember the third.
November 18, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Brandie Tarvin (11/18/2010)
I hate to say it, but if PASS HQ handles the money, then there are going to be issues.1) Chapters will have to jump through hoops to get their funds, mainly because they'll need to supply proof that they're using the money for its stated purpose and PASS HQ will be responsible for maintaining all necessary paperwork for the IRS.
2) Different chapters won't use funds evenly. One chapter may only need $60.00 for a meet while another chapter needs $500.00.
3) Some chapters can't (or won't be able to) scare up sponsors to contribute.
2 & 3 will lead to resentment amongst chapters once people figure out who's getting the big bulk of the money, who's not getting much funds, and who's supposedly leaching off the system.
4) PASS HQ will have to have paid employees (I don't know if they currently do or not) to maintain the funds, push out an annual report, and coordinate audits with the accountant.
I only mention 2 & 3 because I've seen it happen in other organizations. Maybe there's a way to overcome that with PASS and I'm just foreseeing trouble that won't exist. But since we're on the discussion, I thought I'd mention it.
1. PASS already holds and disperses funds for SQLSaturday's, if the local event chooses to do that. PASS did hold some funds for Orlando this year, while other funds came directly to us.
2. Chapters would still need to raise the funds, PASS would just be the holder and disperser of funds. From my perspective I'd like to see it work like expense reports. Sponsors submit funds to PASS designated for the chapter, the chapter leader would pay costs for the event and then submit an expense report to have a check cut for the expenses, PASS then disperses the funds. Honestly a small paperwork fee charged by PASS would be fine with me. The main thing is that PASS would need to be provided with the names of the chapter leaders that are authorized to request funds. This would work like it does for SQLSaturday
3. If a chapter doesn't raise the funds the whole handling money aspect is moot. There is not an issue.
4. PASS already has a full-time HQ staff. Yes, there may be a need to add a staff person for this, especially if all chapters use it, but, in my opinion, this is one of the biggest pain points for chapters so PASS would help the most people by it. Also, as mentioned in point 2, if PASS had a small administrative charge this would offset some of the new costs incurred. Since chapters could opt-in or opt-out of this benefit just like they can for web sites, then it's not a big deal.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
November 18, 2010 at 3:49 pm
GilaMonster (11/18/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/17/2010)
I love finding out that a project has a dependency on a task assigned to you - when everything else is done and ready to be deployed. Communication, gotta love it.Even my project from hell hasn't had that happen.
Ever found out that everyone was waiting on you to complete a task that had never been assigned to you?
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
Viewing 15 posts - 21,586 through 21,600 (of 66,815 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply