August 18, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Ray K (8/18/2010)
Well-said, Jack.
Thanks. Wish I'd used that paragraph in my blog post. Maybe I'll do another post and use that.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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August 18, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Jack Corbett (8/18/2010)
Roy Ernest (8/18/2010)
You could always choose an empty ballot paper... 🙂I am shocked... and I was planning to put some time into pass as volunteer. I will have to think about it again.
Somebody told me that PASS is very political and that is why he has no intention to run in the board. I guess I understand what he meant. And I hate politics....
Roy and any other Threadizens having the same thoughts,
Withdrawing is not the answer. As I said in my last post on the Thread, see my latest blog post, http://goo.gl/fb/K8PLw, for my reaction and thoughts on what the community needs to do.
If we, the people who want change, withdraw then the other side wins. We have to continue to speak up and challenge the organization to change. Over the last year the community has forced change on the board because we have spoken out and challenged their decisions. Matt Morrola in the election last year and we got changes to the process and more transparency, not releasing the results of the Summit survey - we got the results and more transparency, keeping the Summit in Seattle - we haven't won this one yet, but we got SQLRally. If we had chosen to withdraw then no changes would have happened.
The answer is to engage, not withdraw. Go on the offensive and let the people who DID make the slate know what you want.
Thanks Jack for the encouragement. I read this post and your previous that you responded directly to me and was just about convinced to join. You made some great points. I still may join. I've never officially joined but I was going to the local PASS chapter meetings a couple of years ago but stopped because work got busy and they meet from 4:30pm to 6pm on Wednesdays at a location that is not very convenient for me.
I am also sorry to hear you didn't make the final slate either. I think you would of been great. Again this is their loss.
One of the turn offs for me for organizations like this is the politics involved. It reminds me of a HOA (Home owner's association). Especially after reading through the bylaws.
I probably should be more active with my HOA, maybe they'd stop raising their fees, get better landscapers or atleast I'd have a better understanding of their challenges. They don't like it when they're challenged either.
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August 18, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Don't agree with the write-in, think that if we want to be part of the organization, we have to play by the established rules. Perhaps we need to lobby to change the rules, but we should use the system to change the system.
Jack's right, we need to stay or get involved in order to make our voices heard, that's why I was so excited about the possibility of getting Steve, Jack and Andy all on the same board together.
I shall instead figure out what other options are available, and hope that this hasn't soured you guys to the point of not applying again.
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August 18, 2010 at 4:04 pm
I'm not soured at all, but I certainly can't guarantee I'll be in a place in life again where my work will support me like I've been supported by my current employer and the desire to bring about change will still be strong enough to want to make the commitment.
My biggest frustration right now is that this is the 3rd time in a year that PASS has been burned by NOT being transparent. PASS makes a decisions, but doesn't give details on how the decisions have been made. When will the organization learn? My biggest fear now is that the candidates, minus Andy, will talk transparency, but won't fight for it. I know that's what I'll be asking about and pushing for...
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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August 18, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Jack Corbett (8/18/2010)
I'm not soured at all, but I certainly can't guarantee I'll be in a place in life again where my work will support me like I've been supported by my current employer and the desire to bring about change will still be strong enough to want to make the commitment.My biggest frustration right now is that this is the 3rd time in a year that PASS has been burned by NOT being transparent. PASS makes a decisions, but doesn't give details on how the decisions have been made. When will the organization learn? My biggest fear now is that the candidates, minus Andy, will talk transparency, but won't fight for it. I know that's what I'll be asking about and pushing for...
I read the post by Stuart Ainsworth. While I don't like that neither you nor Steve is on the slate, I can't say that I fault the transparency on this issue.
Let's take it from another avenue. We have discussed having an interview as a part of the MCJ. I would not want the interview board to discuss the contents of that interview. It would be very difficult to say anything about that interview without divulging the interview and thus opening the door for people to game the system.
Caution has to be taken with extreme prejudice to not say anything that could tip the scales unfavorably to a different candidate because he knew what would be in the interview because somebody spilled the beans previously.
Though I am intrigued by the why, I really do not want to know any further detail of the content of the interview.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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August 18, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Jeff Moden (8/17/2010)
Roy Ernest (8/17/2010)
Jeff, Thank You. Our user group would love that. maybe for September we could try that out? 🙂 Thanks once again. 🙂More info, please... Date? Time? Please put times into Eastern US time and, yes, we observe daylight savings time.
Roy... got anything on this?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 18, 2010 at 5:41 pm
I think we're all intrigued by the why, but there's one thing I consider being worse.
And it's not Jack and Jeff being rejected. It's the way the decision has been communicated to the candidates, at least by what I've read so far (Jeffs and Stuarts blog including links).
I'm guessing but it would have been a slightly different story if Jeff (and the others not nominated) would have known the reason in detail before it went official.
Maybe (and I'd say even most probably) Jeffs blog would have started with "I didn't make it into the final round but I know why. The NomCom and I talked about it in detail. I understand the reason and we agreed to the level we're going to discuss it in public. And here's the story: ... And here's what we're not going to discuss in public and why: ...".
I also expect Jack would have preferred it that way, too. At least I would have in such a situation.
But statements like "I'm surprised" made by some people directly involved in the process indicate that there is a lack of communication. From my perspective it's not Jeffs nor Jacks responsibility to ask for details (like Stuart suggested). It's the NomCom that missed that final part.
August 19, 2010 at 6:13 am
Steve Jones - Editor (8/18/2010)
Thanks. I shall decline to comment on PASS further at this time.
WTF!
I'll buy an adult beverage in Seattle and you can tell me what the hell happened. I'm frankly shocked.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
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August 19, 2010 at 6:16 am
Jack Corbett (8/18/2010)
Roy Ernest (8/18/2010)
You could always choose an empty ballot paper... 🙂I am shocked... and I was planning to put some time into pass as volunteer. I will have to think about it again.
Somebody told me that PASS is very political and that is why he has no intention to run in the board. I guess I understand what he meant. And I hate politics....
Roy and any other Threadizens having the same thoughts,
Withdrawing is not the answer. As I said in my last post on the Thread, see my latest blog post, http://goo.gl/fb/K8PLw, for my reaction and thoughts on what the community needs to do.
If we, the people who want change, withdraw then the other side wins. We have to continue to speak up and challenge the organization to change. Over the last year the community has forced change on the board because we have spoken out and challenged their decisions. Matt Morrola in the election last year and we got changes to the process and more transparency, not releasing the results of the Summit survey - we got the results and more transparency, keeping the Summit in Seattle - we haven't won this one yet, but we got SQLRally. If we had chosen to withdraw then no changes would have happened.
The answer is to engage, not withdraw. Go on the offensive and let the people who DID make the slate know what you want.
Extremely well put and I agree.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 19, 2010 at 6:17 am
CirquedeSQLeil (8/18/2010)
Jack Corbett (8/18/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (8/18/2010)
What would PASS do about everybody writing in Steve on the Ballot this year?Sorry Jason, you won't have the option. You'll be presented with the 5 candidates and asked to choose 3. I suppose you could only vote for 2, but then you wouldn't have input on the 3rd person because not everyone will agree on who the 2 should be and the election is just top 3 are elected.
Quite Simple. Take a Sharpie and cross out the names you don't want and write in the ones you do 😉
You could do that, but it's hard to get those sharpie marks off the computer screen.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 19, 2010 at 6:23 am
First Kent Sql server user group done and dusted.
Start got delayed by filming of a Jack the Ripper tv show, not what i needed. Flustered enough as it was, still will be doing it again 🙂
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/sqlandthelike/archive/2010/08/19/kent-sql-server-user-group.aspx
August 19, 2010 at 6:46 am
LutzM (8/18/2010)
I think we're all intrigued by the why, but there's one thing I consider being worse.And it's not Jack and Jeff being rejected.
Who's Jeff?
August 19, 2010 at 7:07 am
Jeff Moden (8/18/2010)
Jeff Moden (8/17/2010)
Roy Ernest (8/17/2010)
Jeff, Thank You. Our user group would love that. maybe for September we could try that out? 🙂 Thanks once again. 🙂More info, please... Date? Time? Please put times into Eastern US time and, yes, we observe daylight savings time.
Roy... got anything on this?
Jeff, How about September 23rd? That is our usual meeting date. The fourth Thursday of every month. We usually have it at 7 PM Local time. I have to check if the Day light savings will change the time in EST. Right now we are following EST but as soon as day light change occurs, we do not change our time and that would mean it will be 6 PM EST.
Is that Ok with you? Just let me know what the topic will be. We have a mix of developers, Network Admins, DBAs and Project leads. (My CTO is usually present)
This month I am going to give them the basics of Execution plan.
-Roy
August 19, 2010 at 7:11 am
Jack Corbett (8/18/2010)
My biggest frustration right now is that this is the 3rd time in a year that PASS has been burned by NOT being transparent. PASS makes a decisions, but doesn't give details on how the decisions have been made. When will the organization learn? My biggest fear now is that the candidates, minus Andy, will talk transparency, but won't fight for it. I know that's what I'll be asking about and pushing for...
This exactly is my issue right now. There were two candidates who wanted to make some changes. Even before the two of you nominated yourself to the board, you both have been talking about the changes that are needed in PASS. In your interview as well, you both specified that you wanted to change how things are being done. Now we have the same old same old. Currently PASS needs fresh blood to make the changes that are needed. And the people who could make the change are not in the race anymore.
-Roy
August 19, 2010 at 7:20 am
I think we need to propose a new way to of selecting the candidates. I'd like to see a process where anyone that has been a PASS member for a set minimum of time (maybe 1 year, TBD) can be a candidate, as long as they have x (say 10-12, for example) PASS members supporting them.
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