November 28, 2011 at 3:18 am
Go for anything, any work you find in the field of SQL Server. Obviously you can not get the DBA job right away, but certainly you can get a chance to work as a trainee within a team of DBAs. You can ask any of your friend who is working in IT field to get a job for you as a trainee, if he can do it, you are set to go.
[Do this at home] :
1. I would say that get some knowledge of programming languages as well like C# or Java & then you can try to make a small project in those languages (take any of your buddy's assignment ;-)). While making the project you will get to work as SQL developer as well :-).
2. Learn learn & learn about SQL Server database administration. There are so many books available on this.
3. As a DBA try to focus on SQL Server internals, high availability, security & performance tuning as the key areas.
P.S.
Having the knowledge as SQL developer is very important to be an exceptional DBA.
Best of luck:-)
November 28, 2011 at 9:24 am
>>For those of you working/have worked as a DBA or SQL developer, what are the most crucial technologies to learn?
If you are in a small shop I would say data modeling, data normalization and adherence to a naming convention (I guess these are more skills than technologies). Once a bad data model gets ingrained its very difficult to fix. Many 'simple' access databases get moved to a server platform. I'd rather have a well-designed access model than a poor model on a 'enterprise' DBMS.
November 28, 2011 at 9:39 am
Dev (11/28/2011)
I usually avoid the discussions when it turns to DBA Vs DEV (developers, not me ;-)). I do understand DBAs are last line of defence but why do we forget many lines of defences (DEVs) that avoid the chances to get hit to last defence.
Of course both roles are important, but as previously mentioned, mistakes by a developer rarely have the impact of a DBA's potential mistakes. The power of a DBA is generally having the complete control of the most valuable commodity most business have, their data. Thats not a superiority complex its just a point of fact that most developers have restricted access to a companies data through their applications.
DBA is a position of ultimate trust and responsibilty. In my current role, a mistake by anyone in my team has the potential to cause a multi-billion £ company to cease trading. Not one developer has that responsibility.
Dev (11/28/2011)
A trainee needs supervision for DBA as well as DEV. I am pretty sure nobody gives control of PROD databases to newbie. There would be DEMO environments for their hands on.
True, but why would you hire an expensive resource to play around in a development environment? The fact remains, there are very few junior positions for that very reason.
November 28, 2011 at 9:53 am
MysteryJimbo (11/28/2011)
Dev (11/28/2011)
I usually avoid the discussions when it turns to DBA Vs DEV (developers, not me ;-)). I do understand DBAs are last line of defence but why do we forget many lines of defences (DEVs) that avoid the chances to get hit to last defence.Of course both roles are important, but as previously mentioned, mistakes by a developer rarely have the impact of a DBA's potential mistakes. The power of a DBA is generally having the complete control of the most valuable commodity most business have, their data. Thats not a superiority complex its just a point of fact that most developers have restricted access to a companies data through their applications.
DBA is a position of ultimate trust and responsibilty. In my current role, a mistake by anyone in my team has the potential to cause a multi-billion £ company to cease trading. Not one developer has that responsibility.
Dev (11/28/2011)
A trainee needs supervision for DBA as well as DEV. I am pretty sure nobody gives control of PROD databases to newbie. There would be DEMO environments for their hands on.True, but why would you hire an expensive resource to play around in a development environment? The fact remains, there are very few junior positions for that very reason.
We are talking about Trainee Positions or Jr. DBA / DEV positions. I don't think multi-billion penalties are applicable here.
November 28, 2011 at 11:26 am
@SSC Veteran - Interesting point. I figured that as much but you're the first to mention it outside of a text book.
Thanks
December 26, 2011 at 9:06 pm
I'm not sure I understand your post. Please clarify.
December 26, 2011 at 11:01 pm
SqlNewJack (12/26/2011)
I'm not sure I understand your post. Please clarify.
Don’t worry that’s SPAM. I reported it yesterday but it seems SSC admin staff is vacation so cleanup is delayed.
January 3, 2012 at 10:22 am
I will add I am new to SQL and been at my sys admin job for over a year now and I have full control over our databases. I am most likely the exception to the rule because this is not my first rodeo I have a military background not in IT, but my boss trusts me to not do something stupid like make changes to a PROD DB without a good backup and testing. I also know better than to run a DB job during business hours slowing performance or opening up our DB to the world, (actually battling one of our vendors on some real stupid DB design and security). Sad when there expert gets owned by a SQL newbie.
Anyway what i am saying is learn as much as you can, can you explain the differences in JOINS? some best practices? Most likely you will need to prove yourself over a period of time to open some doors, but it can be done. Also i would say as a DBA you need to understand more than just SQL because when problem gets pointed to you a lot of the time it really isn't a DB problem, but you will need to prove that. Things like is it a bandwidth problem, timeout, query performance issue, server performance issue, is stagnant data being backup, are backups competing with other jobs, also do you know how to do performance testing to correctly size hardware for a project and bandwidth requirements and do you understand how to use a packet sniffer to troubleshoot issues?
These are just a few things i have to do to troubleshoot vendor and internal issues.
March 26, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Steering the conversation slightly, what are the bigger shops paying for sql developers and SSIS/SSRS/BI type positions and are there are any SQL positions typically filled with less experienced people?
It appears most of my options (taken from the replies on this thread and extracted from job postings) is to break into the sql world as a programmer.
March 26, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Edit: THis may be the wrong thread for this reply. Looked like another that was started on a simalar topic. Sorry if this does not apply directly, but much of it still will.
SqlNewJack (3/26/2012)
Steering the conversation slightly, what are the bigger shops paying for sql developers and SSIS/SSRS/BI type positions and are there are any SQL positions typically filled with less experienced people?It appears most of my options (taken from the replies on this thread and extracted from job postings) is to break into the sql world as a programmer.
Since it looks like you are already supporting SQL Server, even if it is a small database, this is the time to learn as much as possible. Gain experience where you are now so that you understand SQL Server. You aren't going to be able to master every part of it, but you can master those areas that have an impact where you are now.
Learn about backups and recoveries (backups are worthless, restores are priceless). Learn and be able to explain the differences between the simple, bulk_logged, and full recovery models and between full, differential, and transaction log baclups. Learn how to do point-in-time recoveris, and learn when you can't do them. Learn about indexing strategies. Learn how to code in sql and more importantly, how to thing in a set-based manner instead of row by row.
Learn about things like tally table and how they can be used. I would give you more, but everything you need you can actually find right here on ssc. I learned more here in five years than I learned in my previous nine years of working with SQL Server. Read the articles, read the forums trying to answer the questions just for yourself, ask questions where things don't make sense.
If you can, and have a good PC at home, purchase the Developers Edition of SQL Server and play with it at home. The more you work with it the better you will become.
March 28, 2012 at 7:21 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)
(XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).The most prolific poster post because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not to get anything of any kind in return.
Just something to ponder on 😉
I completely disagree. Theres been some prolific posters on forums who have posted what I genuinely consider to be complete nonsense, and have actively made the entire world slightly worse because of their participation. Sometimes posting is really not the right thing to do 😉
March 28, 2012 at 7:49 am
patrickmcginnis59 (3/28/2012)
Ninja's_RGR'us (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)
(XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).The most prolific poster post because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not to get anything of any kind in return.
Just something to ponder on 😉
I completely disagree. Theres been some prolific posters on forums who have posted what I genuinely consider to be complete nonsense, and have actively made the entire world slightly worse because of their participation. Sometimes posting is really not the right thing to do 😉
I guess it depends on the poster, doesn't. Most of the heavy hitters here on SSC do it because they want to give back to community, not something in return. Plus, I think that old post was a bit of sarcasm.
March 28, 2012 at 8:44 am
Lynn Pettis (3/28/2012)
patrickmcginnis59 (3/28/2012)
Ninja's_RGR'us (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)
(XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).The most prolific poster post because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not to get anything of any kind in return.
Just something to ponder on 😉
I completely disagree. Theres been some prolific posters on forums who have posted what I genuinely consider to be complete nonsense, and have actively made the entire world slightly worse because of their participation. Sometimes posting is really not the right thing to do 😉
I guess it depends on the poster, doesn't. Most of the heavy hitters here on SSC do it because they want to give back to community, not something in return. Plus, I think that old post was a bit of sarcasm.
There exists a set of concepts and entities where moreness corresponds directly to goodness. Hundred dollar bills for instance. I refuse to put forum posts into this category. I do acknowlege that I could be in the minority here.
If you want, I can repeat THIS EXACT POST as sort of a self referential counterexample to "Ninja's_RGR'us"'s posted assertion.
March 28, 2012 at 8:55 am
patrickmcginnis59 (3/28/2012)
Lynn Pettis (3/28/2012)
patrickmcginnis59 (3/28/2012)
Ninja's_RGR'us (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)
(XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).The most prolific poster post because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not to get anything of any kind in return.
Just something to ponder on 😉
I completely disagree. Theres been some prolific posters on forums who have posted what I genuinely consider to be complete nonsense, and have actively made the entire world slightly worse because of their participation. Sometimes posting is really not the right thing to do 😉
I guess it depends on the poster, doesn't. Most of the heavy hitters here on SSC do it because they want to give back to community, not something in return. Plus, I think that old post was a bit of sarcasm.
There exists a set of concepts and entities where moreness corresponds directly to goodness. Hundred dollar bills for instance. I refuse to put forum posts into this category. I do acknowlege that I could be in the minority here.
If you want, I can repeat THIS EXACT POST as sort of a self referential counterexample to "Ninja's_RGR'us"'s posted assertion.
No need, we will just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
March 28, 2012 at 9:09 am
patrickmcginnis59 (3/28/2012)
Ninja's_RGR'us (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)
(XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).The most prolific poster post because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not to get anything of any kind in return.
Just something to ponder on 😉
I completely disagree. Theres been some prolific posters on forums who have posted what I genuinely consider to be complete nonsense, and have actively made the entire world slightly worse because of their participation. Sometimes posting is really not the right thing to do 😉
Ninja wasn't saying that posting often = good and posting very often = awesome and that posting for the sake of posting is the right thing to do.
What he was saying it that for most of the prolific posters here and elsewhere, when they post it is because it is the right thing to do, something needs saying, something needs clarifying. They don't post because they want or expect a thank you, a reward, the undying admiration or anything like that. Not about frequency or appropriateness, but about expected reward or return, that's all.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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