Going Native

  • Ralf Dietrich

    SSChasing Mays

    Points: 651

    Hello,

    I not amused that so many people rely on maintenance plans - there was(? or better "are"!) so many bugs in them.

    Yes - they might be good for non DBAs working in small companies with small databases - so they cannot do much wrong.

    Did you know, how many "DBA" have the shrink option enabled?

    Did you know, how many "DBA" think, their databases have a valid backup but they haven't?

    Did you know that the GUI sometimes changes your entries?

    Did

    If you have one DB on your SQL Server, set your database recovery mode to simple and let the MP-Wizard do the full db backup and also the index reorganize --> but please check for your history - they might not purged as you configured.

    Yes I'm completely unhappy with the MPW from a consultant perspective who has to fix countless MPW implementations :doze:

    Yes - I have seen working maintenance plans BUT I won't rely on them - no more - Never! (perhaps in SQL 2008 R2 ;-))

    just my 2 cents

    Ralf

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994661

    Ralf Dietrich (6/21/2009)


    Yes I'm completely unhappy with the MPW from a consultant perspective who has to fix countless MPW implementations

    Heh... as a consultant, I'd think you'd be happy about such a thing... the clock ticks while you're fixing them. 😉

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Ralf Dietrich

    SSChasing Mays

    Points: 651

    this might be good for a consultant - but after all, I don't like to bill people when they were sure they was doing their very best (with the best ever wizard on earth)

    I remember about the happiness after the MPW was introduced in SQL 7 and yes I was loving it too (1 week)

    I saw the potential to simply click the wizard and for normal operations all was done - pooh how many years I've spend to tell Microsoft that a least remove the shrink DB task from the wizard - no one was able to tell me, why this task is still there.

    For the other - how difficult is it to add 2 parameters to the wizard: rebuild indices only over a given size and over a given fragmentation ... yes we can see improvements in SQL 2008 but I cannot say that I will rely

    (I like more consulting in VLDB/ULDB and code review and tough performance issues)

  • Ralf Dietrich

    SSChasing Mays

    Points: 651

    nice gif - how to get a picture in?

    RBAR 🙂

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994661

    1. At the top of this page, you'll find the words "Control Panel"... click there and it will bring up your profile.

    2. Scroll down the almost left side and find "Edit Avatar".

    3. Follow your nose after that...

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Steve Jones - SSC Editor

    SSC Guru

    Points: 715841

    Ralf,

    I'm curious, what's the alternative? If people don't know how to configure backups, if they haven't had experience, is not the MPW a good place to start? Don't they have backups running?

    Or are they better off calling you and not having had any backups running? Or one every 11 days when someone thinks of it?

  • Charles Kincaid

    SSChampion

    Points: 13593

    Jeff:

    Puts me in mind of that old Dilbert strip where the boss says that they are going to pay heavy bonuses for every bug fixed. One of the developers dashes out. Dilbert asks where he is going. "I'm going to go write a new mini-van."

    Ralf:

    I'm with you. I did not know that I was causing my customers log problems. Many use Backup Exec, or something similar. We leave the databases in "full" for safety. Log backups? What log backups? The thing runs for months on end with no issues. I come in and take a full backup to prepare for enhancements. Days later I start getting these calls. The log is full. I did not know. Now I do.

    Education is humbling. It teaches you that you do not know.

    I have no problem with people who run the wizards. The wizards have taught me some things. "Where the heck is this documented? I can make that work even better if I knew the tricks." They are a great place to start. I just don't think that they are a place to finish.

    My objection is with the thinking that Good Enough will always be Good Enough. It's like saying if Microsoft wanted me to use it they would have built it in. Microsoft does not act that way. Where I work we often use house building or remodel analogies. Microsoft gives you a foundation and framework. Weather tight and dry. You want light? Go buy lamps. Want central heat. That's an option. Interior decorating? "Sure, we have decorating services. You can do it yourself and we can sell you guide books. We also have lists of 'certified' contractors. Finally there are loads of independent people out there that can come in an do a fine job."

    ATBCharles Kincaid

  • Ralf Dietrich

    SSChasing Mays

    Points: 651

    Hi folks,

    thx for your reply - you should not think I'll never use them - I've said - I won't rely on them.

    I completely agree with you, that start with this wizard is a good start to think about what he offers - but at least it should work - e.g. no bugs with simple logged databases which are offered to have log backups.

    I'd say: unexperienced people - those who are primarily use the wizard - usually not aware about any bugs- they just think - cool - nice - it seems to work - fine!

    Yes I see the improvements (and weaknesses) about the years but for now - I'm not able to believe that the configuration "just works" and at least --> for me it is a overkill to use ssis to perform backups

    Keep it simple - sorry for that - todays databases needs backup - if they need more the vendor (of 3rd parties) should provide the necessary scripts - but which vendor use the database as a database (and not a data grave)

    Index rebuilding cool but advanced topic (for this type of admins)

    shrink databases --> usually a no-no why is it there?

    At least - the wizard do not prevent from overwriting backup files - this - a least - should a good wizard for part time admins do.

    The wizard should warn about placing the backup files on the same drive than the databases and so on --> this would help to prevent unrecoverable incidents ...

  • Chris Harshman

    SSC-Forever

    Points: 41746

    Ralf Dietrich (6/22/2009)


    ...The wizard should warn about placing the backup files on the same drive than the databases and so on...

    Yes, thank you!:w00t: I can't believe how many people still do this. Earlier this year a client of ours had a big problem on their RAID array, and were having problems restoring the backup files onto another computer. After trying to help them investigate over the phone a couple of different ways with no success, I asked where the backup files were stored at and they told us the same RAID array, I smacked my forehead and just sat there stunned.

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994661

    Charles Kincaid (6/22/2009)


    Microsoft gives you a foundation and framework. Weather tight and dry. You want light? Go buy lamps. Want central heat. That's an option. Interior decorating? "Sure, we have decorating services.

    Heh... they also provide lots and lots of rope. 😛

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Charles Kincaid

    SSChampion

    Points: 13593

    Jeff Moden (6/23/2009)


    Heh... they also provide lots and lots of rope. 😛

    The better to hang oneself with my friend.

    ATBCharles Kincaid

Viewing 11 posts - 31 through 41 (of 41 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply