Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help

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Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help

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-=JLK=- SSCertifiable Points: 5315 More actions · Answer 1

Nice article Jeff. Great "how to" without being to pushy. Nothing puts me off answering a post like having to much "up front" work so I can test my answer. Since I don't like looking stupid I prefer to test my results before posting them and if I have to go to to much trouble to build test tables and data it's just not worth the effort. But like many others I had to "learn" the right way to ask a question by trial, error and observation. Hopefully you have shortened the learning curve for some.

James.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 2

Loner (11/27/2007)
Actually I tried to answer that question, it was quite a challenge !!!
Sometimes it is hard to write a question, I read a question that is a page long with tables and query and everything, I just don't have patience to read a page long question.

Heh... That was a chop buster, wasn't it? Would have been sooooo much easier if the tables were in a CREATE TABLE format and the data was in a SELECT/INTO format...

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 3

Andy Warren (11/27/2007)
Good write up and I agree there are lots of things users can do to help get their questions answered more effectively, and I do agree that there is a percentage looking for the free lunch! On the other hand though, it's easy to forget/not understand that people asking questions for the first time are often embarrassed at having to ask, afraid they are asking a stupid question, perhaps under time pressure at work, or even new to the business. Im not saying that they shouldn't be capable of clearly framing a question, but clear to them and clear to us might be some span apart, and I like that this article addresses the differences.

Thanks for the great response, Andy... and thanks for the great compliment.

Before I submitted the article, I asked a couple of folks what they thought... Many took the stance that Doug took further up in this thread... "Poor choice of subject. So many "Newbie needs help" and "help me" threads abound. I'd much rather see a topical subject. " And that was his first (Newbie) post on this forum!

I hope folks realize two things...

Even "Old Hands" at posting could learn a thing or two about how to ask questions/post data/etc to get quicker better answers. Phil Factor is correct... the very act of formulating the question and getting the right data to post will frequently lead to an answer because they're "thinking" about the problem!

The other thing people need to remember is that there will always be "newbies" that need a leg up. When I was a "newbie", the World Wide Web was still just a well paved on-ramp to a dirt road... didn't have great forums like SQL Server Central to go to. I've got a bit of a soft-spot for those who try and still need some help. Figured I'd post something to help them get better answers, quicker.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 4

Having the test data in a ready to use format is great, but even if they provide it in a tabular format, it is better than nothing. I use UltraEdit to format tabular data into an insertable format when it is provided. The column mode in UE makes it easy to create INSERT statments.

I will agree, however, that if the OP asking the question takes the time to provide everything that is needed to assist that it makes it easier to assist. I also agree with the other comments that the OP of a question should provide the expected results. I have tried to help a few that what was provided to them wasn't what they wanted, but they didn't tell us what it was they were actually looking for.

😎

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 5

-=JLK=- (11/27/2007)
Nice article Jeff. Great "how to" without being to pushy. Nothing puts me off answering a post like having to much "up front" work so I can test my answer. Since I don't like looking stupid I prefer to test my results before posting them and if I have to go to to much trouble to build test tables and data it's just not worth the effort. But like many others I had to "learn" the right way to ask a question by trial, error and observation. Hopefully you have shortened the learning curve for some.
James.

Long time no "see", James. Thanks for the compliments and spot-on with your comments, especially the following...

Since I don't like looking stupid I prefer to test my results before posting them and if I have to go to to much trouble to build test tables and data it's just not worth the effort.

I guess that's my biggest point, folks... if you want a good answer from the more experienced folks, pasting data and table creation as I've suggested in the article will not only make it easier for them test their solutions, but it will actually tempt some of the "pros" to take a whack at your problem because they don't have to do any setup. Posting the Create statements for tables helps a lot, too, because they clearly identify data types and all the other questions that too frequently are left unanswered.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Kenneth.Fisher SSC-Insane Points: 20396 More actions · Answer 6

You know all of this remind me of one of my favorite help requests I had when I was a lead developer years ago.

"Its broken"

Literally .. that was it. "Its broken"

Sad to say I still see stuff like that even here sometimes.

Kenneth FisherI was once offered a wizards hat but it got in the way of my dunce cap.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following... http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/[/url]For better answers on performance questions, click on the following... http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/[/url]Link to my Blog Post --> www.SQLStudies.com[/url]

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 7

Having the test data in a ready to use format is great, but even if they provide it in a tabular format, it is better than nothing

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the response...

What you say is absolutely true... but guess which posts I'm going to do first :hehe:

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 8

Jeff,

Same here actually, but I'd work on one with test data in tabular format before one that has no test data at all.

I also go for the ones with "this is what I have tried, and this is what I am trying to achieve (expected results)", before those that just ask for help with no real supporting info.

😎

Rudyx - the Doctor SSC-Forever Points: 43695 More actions · Answer 9

Jeff, the article is excellent ! (I have to look at the site to cast a vote - 5 stars in my book).

Steve, maybe we can put a 'How To' reference on the sight and start it off with Jeff's article.

RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."

-=JLK=- SSCertifiable Points: 5315 More actions · Answer 10

Jeff Moden (11/27/2007)
Long time no "see", James. Thanks for the compliments...

Your Welcome, I still pop in every day and review several posts but have not had the time to dedicate helping out, mission comes first. Though I do try to read at least one of the articles on the main page most days as a stop-gap measure to keep up with current events in the community. Hopefully I'll have another down period soon and be able to contribute more (which is often fun and educational).

James.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 11

Kenneth Fisher (11/27/2007)
You know all of this remind me of one of my favorite help requests I had when I was a lead developer years ago.
"Its broken"
Literally .. that was it. "Its broken"
Sad to say I still see stuff like that even here sometimes.

Yeah! Right there with you on that one! No error messages, no symptoms, no nothing. The ones I really like are the ones that imply "Its broken and I demand an answer, now!". 😀

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 12

rudy komacsar (11/27/2007)
Jeff, the article is excellent ! (I have to look at the site to cast a vote - 5 stars in my book).
Steve, maybe we can put a 'How To' reference on the sight and start it off with Jeff's article.

Thanks Rudy!

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 13

Heh... I guess the "bad code" example was so bad, that the Code window couldn't handle it... so, here it is... sans code window...

select v.* from #mytable v, ( select min(id) as firstidofstagnation from #mytable v, ( select min(id) as lastidbeforestagnation from ( select top 2 value, max(id) as id from #mytable group by value order by max(id) desc )x )ls where v.id > ls.lastidbeforestagnation )fs where v.id = fs.firstidofstagnation

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 14

Jason Selburg (11/27/2007)
My fingers are crossed that people actually read this article!

One can only hope, ol' friend. And, thanks for the compliment 🙂

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003863 More actions · Answer 15

David Bird (11/27/2007)
I liked your SQL example. Inserts into tables with Identity columns can be challenging. So besides providing excellent advice on submitting forum questions you provide a flexible script for promoting table contents that involve identity and datetime columns.
Thanks

Thanks for the compliment, David... I aim to please... I frequently miss, but I'm always aiming! 😛

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)