January 28, 2016 at 8:26 am
Jeff Moden (1/28/2016)
Gary Varga (1/28/2016)
TheFault (1/28/2016)
David.Poole (1/27/2016)
When I'm recruiting I scan for the skills I want, the context and then length of time in each position and any suspicious gaps.quote]
Curious what constitutes a suspicious gap, and does this apply when looking for contractors? What about a contractor looking for a permanent position now?
When I assist clients recruiting (I am a contractor) an example of suspicious gaps is when someone works for a month, maybe two, then has a gap of a month or two and this cycle repeats over a couple or more years. To me this suggests someone who either hasn't got the technical skills or doesn't fit in. Either is dangerous.
If the person is a contractor, you might look at that as a bit of dedication as (s)he doesn't try to scare up a new gig until the current gig is complete. In other words, it might be the sign of someone that knows better than to take on too much at once. "It Depends".
Absolutely it depends. In the UK market it would be deemed odd though. Also a month gap can mean almost 3 if they finish on the 1st of month 1 and start on the 31st of month 3.
It is just like phishing websites, there is a difference and it is often easy to sense but harder to describe how you know.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 28, 2016 at 8:29 am
TheFault (1/28/2016)
I think gaps in employment are often given an incorrect air of suspicion... Career breaks, maternity/raising a child, long term illness, travelling, redundancy, full time study are all valid reasons for a gap, but would potentially ruin chance of interview selection when someone skims through a CV without reading in depth for the full details.
I agree but most of which you describe wouldn't match what I am watching out for. It is the short regular gaps that I am concerned about which, unfortunately, might catch someone with a long term illness.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 28, 2016 at 9:01 am
Curious what constitutes a suspicious gap, and does this apply when looking for contractors? What about a contractor looking for a permanent position now?
Very short employment periods, lots of breaks in between. That in conjunction with a busy market.
I appreciate that this might not sound fair but the recruitment process is expensive and time consuming. It's a cost, not revenue generating activity.
January 28, 2016 at 9:34 am
EdVassie (1/27/2016)
One minute to evaluate a CV... luxury! In my last job I worked for a large UK job board, and we frequently asked recruiters for feedback on how they processed candidates.Many recruiters said they spend less than 10 seconds looking at the top half of page 1 before deciding if it was worth scrolling down or moving to the next candidate. Even after scrolling down, attention span remained short with any CV longer than 2 sides of A4/Letter normally getting passed over.
10 seconds is a horrible short time to decide if someone is able to do the job, and probably many people get passed over who have the technical skills but are not so good on presentation. But as a schoolteacher once said "Who the hell told you that life was going to be fair?"
The first few sentences are critical. CV length is critical. Say what is true and only what needed to be considered for a job. Get this right and you get to the next stage.
Two positions I got through recruiters a few years ago I wouldn't have gotten had I not also called the recruiter and spoken directly to them. Had I left it to just my resume I would have been passed over. I think my resume has gotten better over the years as it has gotten me interviews without calling.
January 28, 2016 at 9:59 am
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 29, 2016 at 4:09 am
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.
I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
January 29, 2016 at 7:00 am
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
You [didn't get the job] or just [didn't want the job] ?
There have been occasions where I've lost interest ten minutes into an hour long interview.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 29, 2016 at 7:28 am
Eric M Russell (1/29/2016)
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
You [didn't get the job] or just [didn't want the job] ?
There have been occasions where I've lost interest ten minutes into an hour long interview.
Didn't get the job. They asked me a series of basic DBA questions, which I nailed. Then they got into the responsibilities of what I would be doing and the requirements. First requirement was must be moderate-to-expert level with dynamic SQL because all their code is written in it.
I just paused and responded, "Well, I rarely work with dynamic SQL. I may not be a good fit if that's what you're looking for. There was no mention of this in the job posting or the recruiter. Sorry if I wasted your time."
I was a bit upset they didn't at least mention that on the listing or have anyone prior to me meeting with the hiring manager bring it up. It's been awhile since I met with them and the positing is still available with no mention of dynamic SQL.
January 29, 2016 at 8:24 am
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.
At risk of revealing too much, I think I'm in this position right now, and wondering how on earth to get out of it without adversely affecting my CV. (I only found out after joining this place that hardly anybody stays more than a couple of months.) I really want to cut my losses and make a fresh start, but I know how bad it looks to leave after 6-7 months.
January 29, 2016 at 1:19 pm
Beatrix Kiddo (1/29/2016)
At risk of revealing too much, I think I'm in this position right now, and wondering how on earth to get out of it without adversely affecting my CV. (I only found out after joining this place that hardly anybody stays more than a couple of months.) I really want to cut my losses and make a fresh start, but I know how bad it looks to leave after 6-7 months.
I wouldn't worry about having one short stay on the CV. It's a proactive thing to say you realised early on that the place was a bad fit (or whatever sounds positive), and in the interests of your career the best thing was to put it right and move asap.
It's when a CV contains a series of short stays that it starts to imply to the recruiter that here is a person who may be a problematic colleague if we hire them.
January 29, 2016 at 1:35 pm
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
It may have been a "leader" question. It may be that they have a bunch of stuff written in dynamic SQL that they think doesn't need to be and may have been looking for someone that knows how to clean it up. Of course, it may also be a shop that you really don't want anything to do with.
In either case, I'd have asked for more detail about why everything was dynamic SQL and why to try to make that determination, especially if you wanted/needed the job.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
January 29, 2016 at 7:14 pm
Jeff Moden (1/29/2016)
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
It may have been a "leader" question. It may be that they have a bunch of stuff written in dynamic SQL that they think doesn't need to be and may have been looking for someone that knows how to clean it up. Of course, it may also be a shop that you really don't want anything to do with.
In either case, I'd have asked for more detail about why everything was dynamic SQL and why to try to make that determination, especially if you wanted/needed the job.
Very true. If the leader was instructing their developers to write everything in dynamic SQL, then people did as they were told. As attrition wears on and they leave, the next manager might look at it as, after a few WTFs, started looking for an expert in dynamic SQL to get rid of it where it wasn't necessary. Then again, it might have been the other case where everyone writes everything in dynamic SQL because that's all they know.
January 29, 2016 at 9:58 pm
Jeff Moden (1/29/2016)
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
It may have been a "leader" question. It may be that they have a bunch of stuff written in dynamic SQL that they think doesn't need to be and may have been looking for someone that knows how to clean it up. Of course, it may also be a shop that you really don't want anything to do with.
In either case, I'd have asked for more detail about why everything was dynamic SQL and why to try to make that determination, especially if you wanted/needed the job.
Oh, I did. They said it was pretty much all dynamic SQL. I don't really recall why, but I think it was just the way it was developed because the app devs were not 100% sold on the data model and so forth (I believe).
They straight up told me that it's insanely hard to maintain. Touch one thing, break another thing. They were looking for an expert that knew what they were doing with dynamic SQL. They didn't give any indication on leaving it, just improving it and maintaining it, which is not me.
I don't know enough about it. I just assumed it was there to put the full power into the applications hands rather than letting SQL Server do it's job. I could be wrong, just didn't want to waste anyones time unless they were willing to let me learn it on the job.
Moral of the story. Always be honest about what you can and can't do with hiring managers (+1). Be a little more clear on job postings, especially on things that are pretty critical to the success of the job (+1).
January 29, 2016 at 10:21 pm
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Jeff Moden (1/29/2016)
xsevensinzx (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
On the flip side, as a job seeker you should also be suspicious of "opportunities" which seem to always be available. For example, there are some employers who advertise for the same solitary DBA position every three or six months, and then LinkedIn reveals a series of half a dozen people who held the position briefly and then left, and those same people appear experienced with well established employment histories prior to that. I wouldn't too easily make assumptions about someone who becomes entangled in a dead end employment relationship or two between long term gigs.I applied for one of those. Got in front of the hiring manager and found out all their SQL was Dynamic SQL. They didn't list anything about it on the job listing. I was a good match for everything but the that bit. Didn't get the job.
I see the job listing come up every month. Still no mention of Dynamic SQL. Wonder why they haven't filled it yet? 🙂
It may have been a "leader" question. It may be that they have a bunch of stuff written in dynamic SQL that they think doesn't need to be and may have been looking for someone that knows how to clean it up. Of course, it may also be a shop that you really don't want anything to do with.
In either case, I'd have asked for more detail about why everything was dynamic SQL and why to try to make that determination, especially if you wanted/needed the job.
Oh, I did. They said it was pretty much all dynamic SQL. I don't really recall why, but I think it was just the way it was developed because the app devs were not 100% sold on the data model and so forth (I believe).
They straight up told me that it's insanely hard to maintain. Touch one thing, break another thing. They were looking for an expert that knew what they were doing with dynamic SQL. They didn't give any indication on leaving it, just improving it and maintaining it, which is not me.
I don't know enough about it. I just assumed it was there to put the full power into the applications hands rather than letting SQL Server do it's job. I could be wrong, just didn't want to waste anyones time unless they were willing to let me learn it on the job.
Moral of the story. Always be honest about what you can and can't do with hiring managers (+1). Be a little more clear on job postings, especially on things that are pretty critical to the success of the job (+1).
Sounds to me like you made a good decision.
January 30, 2016 at 12:30 am
Beatrix Kiddo (1/29/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/28/2016)
At risk of revealing too much, I think I'm in this position right now, and wondering how on earth to get out of it without adversely affecting my CV. (I only found out after joining this place that hardly anybody stays more than a couple of months.) I really want to cut my losses and make a fresh start, but I know how bad it looks to leave after 6-7 months.
An employer with that sort of staff turnaround will rapidly gain a reputation that finds its way into the public domain. Working in such a place can be detrimental to your health and your self-confidence.
Don't worry about 6 months. Many of us old timers have a dropped catch in our careers.
I had the opportunity of life coaching and took it on the advice of a friend. There was a lot of good stuff in the sessions and I was asked some fundamental questions.
What are your values and priorities?
What are the organisation's values and priorities?
What are your bosses values and priorities?
Are your values and priorities in conflict with those of your boss or organisation?
Can you reconcile those conflicts in your own mind?
Can you discuss those conflicts with your boss in order to resolve those conflicts?
If the answer to the last two is NO then however much you may recoil from the thought you are not working in a place that suits you.
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