Can Data Save the World?

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Can Data Save the World?

January 14, 2023 at 2:01 am

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Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003870 More actions · Answer 1

Back to this older thread of "Can data save the world" and seeing what has been going on with the "climate change discussions" (and I hate to call it that) brings another great saying that I heard from my maternal Grandmother when I was just a wee tyke... "Figures can be made to lie... and liars figure".

And, no... not taking sides here or anywhere. It goes along with the previous saying that my Dad said. Grandma had a great way of summing things up.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

skeleton567 SSCertifiable Points: 5672 More actions · Answer 2

Jeff Moden wrote:

Back to this older thread of "Can data save the world" and seeing what has been going on with the "climate change discussions" (and I hate to call it that) brings another great saying that I heard from my maternal Grandmother when I was just a wee tyke... "Figures can be made to lie... and liars figure".
And, no... not taking sides here or anywhere. It goes along with the previous saying that my Dad said. Grandma had a great way of summing things up.

We had a slightlly different version which says : "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

My take on data is that a large part of our job as DBAs and SQL developers is to 'Make Information Out Of Data".

Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )

David.Poole SSC Guru Points: 75900 More actions · Answer 3

My career in data started because I (naively) thought that I would better understand human behaviour by collecting and analyzing data. Nearly 40 years on I understand far less than I did.

Is it possible that data can save the world? YES
Is it probably that data will save the world? NO

Take a look at the Data Information Knowledge pyramid. For data to be promoted upwards through information --> knowledge --> wisdom you need honest, competent actors within a strong ethical framework and the drive to ensure that the right thing is done even if it is not in their immediate self interest.

Think of data on diet and exercise. People don't do what they know they ought even though the facts are not in dispute, presented honestly and it is in their self interest.

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skeleton567 SSCertifiable Points: 5672 More actions · Answer 4

Can data save the world? Well, maybe

Can data destroy the world? Well, maybe.

WILL data save the world? I'm not very optimistic.

I have related to you all earlier a situation where I was given a set of five or six (can't remember the exact count) paired reports of dealer production levels for internal and external use, so there were 10 or 12 stored procedures to be supported. I discovered there was a common error in a calculation used in all of the stored procs which invalidated the data. So I fixed all the sprocs, and sent them to our QA group for verification and inclusion in a new release of the general appliction, including internal servers and remote independent dealer servers. Several years later I retired, and several more years later the application was retired. My old boss told me that the fixes were never released by the QA group.

I'm don't remember if the fix would have saved or destroyed the world, probably depending on if you were the company paying the dealers or the dealers getting paid based on the data.

This is precisely the risk we all face in depending on AI for decisions. Data can be and often IS invalid, sometimes due to errors and probably more and more likely due to hidden agendas and motivation behind the CREATION AND USE of the data.

Isn't this why we reconcile bank and credit card balances, and why companies reconcile their accounting systems? If the data you RECONCILE TO is invalid, somebody may be getting screwed.

Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )

david.gugg SSCertifiable Points: 6033 More actions · Answer 5

Very interesting to think of how differently this concept can be thought about 6 years later than it was originally published. Since then the fact that people use data to reinforce pre-conceived ideas has become more and more obvious. I would guess trust in science is at an all-time low, not because there is anything wrong with the scientific method, but rather because it has become so politicized. Data can be made to tell any story and there are so few who are interested in finding facts/truth instead of ways to confirm their current way of thinking.

And the fact that we're building AI with those same biases is terrifying.

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skeleton567 SSCertifiable Points: 5672 More actions · Answer 6

david.gugg wrote:

I would guess trust in science is at an all-time low, not because there is anything wrong with the scientific method, but rather because it has become so politicized. Data can be made to tell any story and there are so few who are interested in finding facts/truth instead of ways to confirm their current way of thinking.
And the fact that we're building AI with those same biases is terrifying.

David, here's a personal example of data manipulataion. Sorry for the personal nature but it makes the point. I'm a 13-year retiree. This morning I logged into my retirement savings, and the broker's website makes a huge deal that they 'earned' $6838 for me in the markets yesterday.

Now, in light of the current policital news, we're told this is a sign that the economy is doing very well. However, the real truth behind the news is that since the beginning of the current federal administration I've LOST over $160,000 in value. Not 'withdrew' to live on, but through reduction in investment value. They use THEIR numbers to justify their management fees of over $10k a year. I use MY numbers to make my spending decisions.

Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003870 More actions · Answer 7

david.gugg wrote:

Very interesting to think of how differently this concept can be thought about 6 years later than it was originally published. Since then the fact that people use data to reinforce pre-conceived ideas has become more and more obvious. I would guess trust in science is at an all-time low, not because there is anything wrong with the scientific method, but rather because it has become so politicized. Data can be made to tell any story and there are so few who are interested in finding facts/truth instead of ways to confirm their current way of thinking.
And the fact that we're building AI with those same biases is terrifying.

Matches my thoughts. People will use (actually, already are using it) it to fit the data to support their poorly conceived notion or the notion that that want to drive.

As the saying goes "Statistics can really help you lie but you need statistics to prove the truth".

Or, like my dear ol' Grandma told long ago, "Figures can lie... and liars figure".

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)