October 4, 2018 at 9:54 am
Thom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 9:44 AMAt what point would you suggest that someone is no longer "new to SQL"? Would you suggest that, for example, someone who has been working with SQL Server for at least 2.5 years could still consider themselves "new to SQL"?
Heh... according to the interviews I've done in the last decade, I'm finding people that are still "new to SQL" even though they've been working with it for a decade.
The thing I hate about someone saying that they're "new to SQL" is that many of them have jobs that obviously require more than just "newbie" knowledge of SQL and you have to wonder how in the hell they were even considered for such a job never mind keeping one for more than a year. It also angers me that they know it's a part of the job and do little on their own to improve their knowledge.
Then there are the obvious moroffs that are currently in school and they expect you to do their homework for you. You know the ones I'm talking about. I don't mind helping people that are trying to "get it" but the ones that just post obvious exam or homework problems... yeah... it's too bad that it's against my personal ethics to provide wrong answers even for those that deserve to be screwed.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 4, 2018 at 10:01 am
Thom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 9:44 AMAt what point would you suggest that someone is no longer "new to SQL"? Would you suggest that, for example, someone who has been working with SQL Server for at least 2.5 years could still consider themselves "new to SQL"?
The theory of Wooosh/Comprehension ratio states that there is no temporal parameter applicable :crazy:
😎
1) Wooosh: the distance from the forehead up to the perceived level of understanding needed to comprehend the subject matter. For a smart person, that's always landing on the forehead (slam).
.2) Temporal parameter: The time spent on the problem/in the tech, a general assumption that some one can learn things doing certain tasks over a period of time.
3) Noobe factor: Wooosh^Tp/[Problem complexity}, given the nature of the equation, negative numbers equate to the foundation of Darwin's theory.
October 4, 2018 at 10:14 am
I would say that after a year, you're not new to SQL. You might not be competent, you might have 1 week of experience 52 times, but that's your issue. You've had sufficient time to read this site many times, and practice skills.
October 4, 2018 at 10:21 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:14 AMI would say that after a year, you're not new to SQL. You might not be competent, you might have 1 week of experience 52 times, but that's your issue. You've had sufficient time to read this site many times, and practice skills.
In short, doing the same task many times does not equate to understanding the task, like the reporting department which refreshes the report, then presses the print button and finally walk to the printer for delivering the report.
😎
October 4, 2018 at 10:35 am
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but it's something that you must verify or prove, depending on which side of the interview table you sit.
October 4, 2018 at 10:39 am
Thom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 9:44 AMAt what point would you suggest that someone is no longer "new to SQL"? Would you suggest that, for example, someone who has been working with SQL Server for at least 2.5 years could still consider themselves "new to SQL"?
So after all these answers, why the question?
Inquiring minds want to know. @=)
October 4, 2018 at 10:57 am
OK, unrelated to the discussion about who is or isn't "new to SQL," here's a question for you...
Given your druthers, would you rather have a dedicated lab PC separate from your personal PC, or just combine it all on one box?
You do some gaming, but storage isn't an issue regardless of which way you go, and neither the lab nor the personal PC are laptops...
Trying to decide if I want to throw a copy of Dev edition on my desktop PC or keep using a dedicated lab box (VM using the trial of Server 2012 for the OS)
I want to load SSDT on my current lab VM, but for some reason the install keeps failing and the log seems to indicate it can't download files even though it has internet access, and it's starting to annoy me...
October 4, 2018 at 11:02 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:39 AMThom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 9:44 AMAt what point would you suggest that someone is no longer "new to SQL"? Would you suggest that, for example, someone who has been working with SQL Server for at least 2.5 years could still consider themselves "new to SQL"?So after all these answers, why the question?
Inquiring minds want to know. @=)
I was not expecting this many responses in such a short amount of time.
Firstly, my opinion, as I didn't actually express it. Personally, I feel "new to SQL", is a very sweeping statement, it's all encompassing. "New to SQL", to me, means they are experiencing the SQL (Server) data engine for the first time, or have only been introduced to it in the last few months (maybe 6. If they maybe only used it once a month then maybe a year or so). After that, I would suggest you aren't new to SQL, however, you are certainly inexperienced.
After that point though, that doesn't mean you can't be new to certain areas, but not to the product. For example, if someone were, for the first time, about to set up a linked server (and had been using SQL Server for 2 years), saying "I'm new to SQL" would be misleading; especially if they are very proficient at writing statements. They are, however, new linked servers. Similarly, if someone were writing "simple" SELECT statements maybe once or twice a week, I wouldn't expect them to say "I'm new to SQL" a couple of years down the line if they were asked to do a more complex query.
As for why, as with a lot of topics discussed here, it came from a posted question. I won't link the topic (however, I doubt it'll be difficult to find), but the OP was asking what data type is good for a couple of columns (1 example of each value) and they didn't know as they were "new to SQL". Considering, however, they have been posting topics on SSC for the last 2 and a bit years on how to do backups, write queries, conversion errors, upgrading the server, etc, (the range is quite encompassing) I didn't exactly consider them "new", and wondered if it were me and that my opinion of "new" was warped.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
October 4, 2018 at 11:16 am
jasona.work - Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:57 AMOK, unrelated to the discussion about who is or isn't "new to SQL," here's a question for you...
Given your druthers, would you rather have a dedicated lab PC separate from your personal PC, or just combine it all on one box?
You do some gaming, but storage isn't an issue regardless of which way you go, and neither the lab nor the personal PC are laptops...Trying to decide if I want to throw a copy of Dev edition on my desktop PC or keep using a dedicated lab box (VM using the trial of Server 2012 for the OS)
I want to load SSDT on my current lab VM, but for some reason the install keeps failing and the log seems to indicate it can't download files even though it has internet access, and it's starting to annoy me...
Personally, I would prefer to keep them separate. In the real world though, I know that's not going to happen. I can't really warrant the cost (or space) for a second PC set up. I use Linux at home, so instead i have a container set up on the PC for things like SQl Server, Apache, etc. I do, however, have SOS and Code installed on the Host machine; which is effectively what you're trying to install here but it's bigger (and better) brother. Visual Studio is a bit different, and honestly, if i had access to it on Ubuntu, I would probably install it on the container and set it up so that I could launch it to the host's GUI. it's a bit of an agg, but still.
On the Host, however, then I have my "day to day" things installed. Steam, Spotify, Discord. It also used to host my Plex server till I purchased a Synology NAS a couple of months back (best purchase this year, especially after the HDD I was using before failed about 3 weeks later). My laptop is a little more "clean". I don't use it often, however, that has SQL Server, Visual Studio (it's Windows), etc, and doesn't have Steam, Battle.net or anything installed. It does have Spotify and message applications though.
Using a VM is basically what I'm doing, but with the GUI. I like the containers, as I can build (and destroy) one in seconds, and the host isn't as effected as it's purely command line. Snapshots are also great for development work. I often make a snapshot before doing someone "silly" (experimenting) on the dev/sandbox containers, as if I break it, it doesn't matter (and I've really broken them sometimes).
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
October 4, 2018 at 11:24 am
Thom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 11:16 AMjasona.work - Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:57 AMOK, unrelated to the discussion about who is or isn't "new to SQL," here's a question for you...
Given your druthers, would you rather have a dedicated lab PC separate from your personal PC, or just combine it all on one box?
You do some gaming, but storage isn't an issue regardless of which way you go, and neither the lab nor the personal PC are laptops...Trying to decide if I want to throw a copy of Dev edition on my desktop PC or keep using a dedicated lab box (VM using the trial of Server 2012 for the OS)
I want to load SSDT on my current lab VM, but for some reason the install keeps failing and the log seems to indicate it can't download files even though it has internet access, and it's starting to annoy me...Personally, I would prefer to keep them separate. In the real world though, I know that's not going to happen. I can't really warrant the cost (or space) for a second PC set up. I use Linux at home, so instead i have a container set up on the PC for things like SQl Server, Apache, etc. I do, however, have SOS and Code installed on the Host machine; which is effectively what you're trying to install here but it's bigger (and better) brother. Visual Studio is a bit different, and honestly, if i had access to it on Ubuntu, I would probably install it on the container and set it up so that I could launch it to the host's GUI. it's a bit of an agg, but still.
On the Host, however, then I have my "day to day" things installed. Steam, Spotify, Discord. It also used to host my Plex server till I purchased a Synology NAS a couple of months back (best purchase this year, especially after the HDD I was using before failed about 3 weeks later). My laptop is a little more "clean". I don't use it often, however, that has SQL Server, Visual Studio (it's Windows), etc, and doesn't have Steam, Battle.net or anything installed. It does have Spotify and message applications though.
Using a VM is basically what I'm doing, but with the GUI. I like the containers, as I can build (and destroy) one in seconds, and the host isn't as effected as it's purely command line. Snapshots are also great for development work. I often make a snapshot before doing someone "silly" (experimenting) on the dev/sandbox containers, as if I break it, it doesn't matter (and I've really broken them sometimes).
To be fair, I lean towards keeping everything separate myself, but sometimes my VMs can be nuisances, where I just want to try something, but they won't cooperate...
My current issue seems though, to have been resolved by moving the installer to another drive on the VM, go figure...
October 4, 2018 at 12:14 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:14 AMI would say that after a year, you're not new to SQL. You might not be competent, you might have 1 week of experience 52 times, but that's your issue. You've had sufficient time to read this site many times, and practice skills.
Had one week... 52 times lmao..
Wait... That's me... darn it.
<hr noshade size=1 width=250 color=#BBC8E5> Regards,Jeffery Williams http://www.linkedin.com/in/jwilliamsoh
October 4, 2018 at 2:48 pm
jasona.work - Thursday, October 4, 2018 8:16 AMOK, the weather is getting really weird around here...
A couple days ago, needed at least a windbreaker going outside.
Yesterday, open windows on the car for the drive home, and opened windows at the house, even left a couple open overnight...
This morning, open lots of windows in the house (work from home day) yet now I'm thinking about going around and closing all the windows as it's cooling down...
:crazy:AND I just looked at the forecast and they're talking 80s on Saturday???
WTH man?!?!
Yesterday high of 85, today a high of 63, tomorrow into the 90s, saturday high of 61, sunday mid 70s, Monday in the 80s again. SMH.
[/qu
Well, that's a lot more comfortable than typical British weather. But still I wouldn't like it, a high of 61 or 63 (F not C) strikes me as colder than I like. I'm in Britain just now, this is the second year running when problems have kept me in Britain beyond the beginning of October, and the weather here is just plain loony - changes too fast - go out with a coat because it's too cold to do without, and 20 minutes later the coat is unbearable because it's too hot to wear a coat, or go out without a coat to take in some sun and 20 mintes later it's extemely cold and your being pelted with hailstones.
Tom
October 4, 2018 at 3:27 pm
Thom A - Thursday, October 4, 2018 9:44 AMAt what point would you suggest that someone is no longer "new to SQL"? Would you suggest that, for example, someone who has been working with SQL Server for at least 2.5 years could still consider themselves "new to SQL"?
Yes, I think they could. A lot of people learn SQL thinking that its queries are much like handling indexed files, and that the logic of keeping the files coherent/consistent isnt supported by the language. The fairly common view that extra indexes are a worthless overhead, that foreign keys are unneccessary because the applications should deal with those issues, and that the data interface layer should be written in C++ (or Java or C# or Python or Javascript these days) so that single SQL statements are embedded in non-SQl languages rather than SQL procedures existing may be the policies of the company in which someone has spent several years working with SQL, and in that case those people with several years SQL experience ought to consider themselves "new to SQL" because they will actually have learn practically no SQL.
I find it very depressing - people should not be stuck into jobs like that where they will learn nothing useful.
Tom
October 4, 2018 at 4:15 pm
October 5, 2018 at 8:13 am
Eirikur Eiriksson - Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:48 AMDocumentation does not have to be the Ugly Duckling of development, but only if it is an integral part of it. The abstraction of code generation from the development process, is of course a key factor, as if a developer has to write both, there will be difference in priorities and it doesn't take a genius to figure out which of those will be ignored.
If developers won't maintain documentation on their designs and code, they should not be employed. If validating the documentation s part of release control (as it should be, especially for devops) there is no priority conflict between writing it and writing code.
of course if managemen tells the developers that doc is lower priority than code you can expect a calamity.
Tom
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