February 10, 2016 at 9:18 am
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
After reading through the "Antiquated SQL Backups" topic, with some of the hassles I've been having with backups (managed by someone else, with a third party product, which is fighting for resources with a different backup product for the desktops,) I'm really looking into talking to my boss about "going it alone." Of course, across all my (current) servers, I'd need to request around 13.5TB if I wanted to keep a months worth of backups (I'd probably be OK cutting it to two weeks,) plus pushing to get SQL Backup Pro (Red Gate) for each server...But it might be worth it.
They're supposed to be throwing hardware at the backup contention issue, but of course there's hold-ups on that. I'm thinking if things don't get resolved after we finish moving to Win2012R2 / SQL2014, I'll move this one to the front burner and push for it...
Still getting a grip on this new client's environment. It's first on my list of things to mention in the next (first) team meeting... As m'learned ex-colleague Mr Whittle has pointed out, we did use SnapManager briefly on a contract, and got rid of it as soon as possible - but that was 5-6 years ago. Based on that experience, I shall be asking some difficult questions of the infrastructure bods who support it here, though. 😀
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
February 10, 2016 at 9:49 am
Just looking for confirmation on what I am seeing here: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1760134-391-1.aspx.
February 10, 2016 at 10:30 am
Mr Rushton sir, will you be attending SQL Bits this year?
I can't make your shindig this year, the rather excellent SQL Sat Exeter.... Plug plug fun, fun... Fantastic training days, etc...
Rodders...
February 10, 2016 at 10:33 am
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
After reading through the "Antiquated SQL Backups" topic, with some of the hassles I've been having with backups (managed by someone else, with a third party product, which is fighting for resources with a different backup product for the desktops,) I'm really looking into talking to my boss about "going it alone." Of course, across all my (current) servers, I'd need to request around 13.5TB if I wanted to keep a months worth of backups (I'd probably be OK cutting it to two weeks,) plus pushing to get SQL Backup Pro (Red Gate) for each server...But it might be worth it.
They're supposed to be throwing hardware at the backup contention issue, but of course there's hold-ups on that. I'm thinking if things don't get resolved after we finish moving to Win2012R2 / SQL2014, I'll move this one to the front burner and push for it...
On a non-SQL note:
Anyone else planning to go see Deadpool this weekend? So far from the trailers it looks like it's going to be a hoot:hehe:
Do your SysAdmins back up the servers nightly and keep those backup files? If so, you could do your backups to a drive which is being backed up by the SysAdmins. Then you only need to keep one night's backup as any others would be on the tapes/whatever where the SysAdmins have the server file backups.
I'd like to see Deadpool, but I'm oncall this week and will have to put it off.
-SQLBill
February 10, 2016 at 10:38 am
SQLBill (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
After reading through the "Antiquated SQL Backups" topic, with some of the hassles I've been having with backups (managed by someone else, with a third party product, which is fighting for resources with a different backup product for the desktops,) I'm really looking into talking to my boss about "going it alone." Of course, across all my (current) servers, I'd need to request around 13.5TB if I wanted to keep a months worth of backups (I'd probably be OK cutting it to two weeks,) plus pushing to get SQL Backup Pro (Red Gate) for each server...But it might be worth it.
They're supposed to be throwing hardware at the backup contention issue, but of course there's hold-ups on that. I'm thinking if things don't get resolved after we finish moving to Win2012R2 / SQL2014, I'll move this one to the front burner and push for it...
On a non-SQL note:
Anyone else planning to go see Deadpool this weekend? So far from the trailers it looks like it's going to be a hoot:hehe:
Do your SysAdmins back up the servers nightly and keep those backup files? If so, you could do your backups to a drive which is being backed up by the SysAdmins. Then you only need to keep one night's backup as any others would be on the tapes/whatever where the SysAdmins have the server file backups.
I'd like to see Deadpool, but I'm oncall this week and will have to put it off.
-SQLBill
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what the frequency of the file-level backups are (they do exclude MDF / LDF / NDF files, though,) but it would be fairly easy to request a more frequent backup of a set location.
I know the backup software they're using does (tries) to also do deduplication, so even if I opted to keep a week on disk, the file level backups would either dedupe away the "duplicate" files from earlier in the week, or they'd do incrementals (getting pretty much the same result.)
February 10, 2016 at 10:47 am
Then that might help your 'argument' for changing how backups are done. You don't need a whole lot of extra space since you won't be keeping lots of backups on the server itself. You will need to decide how many backups you keep on the server. Also, test/find out how long it will take to get a backup file restored from tape. Do the admins store the tapes offsite? If so, how long does it take to get one back and the file restored for you to do your database restore?
Also, since it is the 3rd Party currently doing the backups, will changing the process to you do the backups violate any agreements? For example, if the contract says the vendor has to be able to restore/recover a database within 4 hours...changing the backup method would violate that as the vendor wouldn't have access to the backups you are doing. Which ultimately could invalidate the entire contract.
-SQLBill
February 10, 2016 at 4:58 pm
SQLBill (2/10/2016)
Then that might help your 'argument' for changing how backups are done. You don't need a whole lot of extra space since you won't be keeping lots of backups on the server itself. You will need to decide how many backups you keep on the server. Also, test/find out how long it will take to get a backup file restored from tape. Do the admins store the tapes offsite? If so, how long does it take to get one back and the file restored for you to do your database restore?Also, since it is the 3rd Party currently doing the backups, will changing the process to you do the backups violate any agreements? For example, if the contract says the vendor has to be able to restore/recover a database within 4 hours...changing the backup method would violate that as the vendor wouldn't have access to the backups you are doing. Which ultimately could invalidate the entire contract.
-SQLBill
Yes, the backups are taken off site weekly, and if it's a "gotta get this restored NOW" they can run out to pick up a tape at any time as it's only about a 30-40 minute drive one way.
Truthfully, switching to me doing the backups might improve our compliance with the agreements...
Quick run-down on the business setup I'm working in: My division essentially is providing SAAS to other divisions, while the server guys are providing *us* with IAAS.
My current plan is to hold tight until after we finish migrating to Server 2012 / SQL 2014, as in that time the rumor is also that they'll take care of the resource contention in the back. So, if the backups start running well and consistently, I'll let it be. If it still seems problematic, then I'll go to my boss, and pull out the "if they want to be responsible for the backups, then they're the ones the customers get to talk to when the backups have been failing (often due to issues with the software they're using,) and not us / me. If we're going to be responsible, then I need around 9-10TB of storage spread around my servers for backups from SQL, and they can backup the files."
Although not quite that "brusque" as my boss is on my side for this really. They're currently collecting info on how often the backups are working, so if need be they can use that to point out that the back isn't meeting *their* targets that they have with us.
February 10, 2016 at 5:00 pm
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.
Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
February 10, 2016 at 5:22 pm
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
Jason, are you doing this at work or at home?
February 10, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
Jason, are you doing this at work or at home?
At home. At work, we've got about 3.5 weeks after MS releases updates to get them installed...
Less if they re-publish an updated update a week or two after it was originally released...
February 10, 2016 at 6:14 pm
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
Jason, are you doing this at work or at home?
At home. At work, we've got about 3.5 weeks after MS releases updates to get them installed...
Less if they re-publish an updated update a week or two after it was originally released...
Careful stressing out your home server too much. DTE has enough of your money already. Don't make the server angry; it knows where you live. You need to unplug it before it achieves self-awareness. 😛
February 11, 2016 at 1:29 am
rodjkidd (2/10/2016)
Mr Rushton sir, will you be attending SQL Bits this year?I can't make your shindig this year, the rather excellent SQL Sat Exeter.... Plug plug fun, fun... Fantastic training days, etc...
Rodders...
Rodders, my boy! Alas, no, I won't be at Bits this year - they keep changing the date, and once again have landed on a date when I'm busy with other stuff. Obviously, I would much rather be at Bits, but... 😉
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
February 11, 2016 at 5:10 am
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
Jason, are you doing this at work or at home?
At home. At work, we've got about 3.5 weeks after MS releases updates to get them installed...
Less if they re-publish an updated update a week or two after it was originally released...
Careful stressing out your home server too much. DTE has enough of your money already. Don't make the server angry; it knows where you live. You need to unplug it before it achieves self-awareness. 😛
Sooo, are you implying that I should've named the server something other than Skynet?
:hehe:
February 11, 2016 at 5:21 am
jasona.work (2/11/2016)
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
Ed Wagner (2/10/2016)
jasona.work (2/10/2016)
On a new note, I'm working on setting up a VM to test a few things for work (easier than trying to get a VM for this sort of thing,) and decided to take advantage of my beast server.Cranked it to 16 vCPUs and 36GB of RAM...
😎
Now it's just got a couple months worth of OS updates before I start loading SQL on it...
Jason, are you doing this at work or at home?
At home. At work, we've got about 3.5 weeks after MS releases updates to get them installed...
Less if they re-publish an updated update a week or two after it was originally released...
Careful stressing out your home server too much. DTE has enough of your money already. Don't make the server angry; it knows where you live. You need to unplug it before it achieves self-awareness. 😛
Sooo, are you implying that I should've named the server something other than Skynet?
:hehe:
I guess it depends on what you have it doing. 😉
February 11, 2016 at 5:35 am
At least he didn't name it WOPR ("shall we play a game?").
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