June 1, 2018 at 6:44 am
jcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
Steve (aka sgmunson) 🙂 🙂 🙂
Rent Servers for Income (picks and shovels strategy)
June 1, 2018 at 9:12 am
Jeff Moden - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:44 AMjcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
I can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.
June 1, 2018 at 9:20 am
jcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AM
Mr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
Actually, Mr. Celko, it is more that I don't care what the French or NATO did or tried in the standards. I am tired of your fawning over MySQL in MS SQL forum. I am still waiting for you to actually help people here instead of bashing people over the head because they don't follow your standards for anything.
June 1, 2018 at 9:31 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:43 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:44 AMjcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
I can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.
I have consistently told Mr. Celko that he does have valuable information to impart, his problem (that he seems to enjoy) is his online persona. If he would become more helpful rather brow beat everyone he would be more than welcome. Until then, I would like to see him leave.
June 1, 2018 at 9:44 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:43 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:44 AMjcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
I can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.
On the contrary, your opinion and offering to this site is just as important as every other person. This site is just as much yours as it is anyone else's, well save for the admins. But being a community we do call out those who violate the social norms.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
June 1, 2018 at 11:10 am
Sean Lange - Friday, June 1, 2018 9:43 AMpatrickmcginnis59 10839 - Friday, June 1, 2018 9:12 AMI can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.On the contrary, your opinion and offering to this site is just as important as every other person. This site is just as much yours as it is anyone else's, well save for the admins. But being a community we do call out those who violate the social norms.
Plus 1 million to that!
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 1, 2018 at 11:55 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:43 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:44 AMjcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
I can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.
Patrick,
At least call things what they are. Mr. Celko has the biases and is just not helping very many people. In all the years I've been on this site, I can only recall one post where Joe actually helped the original poster. Mind you, it;'s entirely possible that there were a couple more that I saw, but promptly forgot because of his rather nasty online persona. As at least 3 other posters agree, (Sean Lange, Jeff Moden, and myself), you are just as much a part of the community as everyone else. The simple but unfortunate fact of life is that not everyone plays nice all the time, and most of the folks familiar with Joe's persona are sick and tired of it. It's a shame to have you come into the middle of this and find out in a rather abrupt manner that you kinda unintentionally stepped in #2 because in someone's haste to post, their grammar went south and appeared to implicate you in a way that most of us that have been around here for a lot longer, already know was not what they meant. Try not to take too much offense from anything anyone says around here... after all, if you've ever mangled a post's grammar because of trying repeatedly to re-edit the same sentence, it's not hard to end up saying something that's just not very good (or sometimes, even nice). Typed commentary just isn't the same as a verbal conversation. Meaning can always be queried. That's much easier to do in a verbal conversation if you're actually knowing the person you're talking to, but nearly impossible for many folks when the other person is someone you really don't know from Adam.
Steve (aka sgmunson) 🙂 🙂 🙂
Rent Servers for Income (picks and shovels strategy)
June 1, 2018 at 12:57 pm
sgmunson - Friday, June 1, 2018 6:44 AMpatrickmcginnis59 10839 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:43 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:44 AMjcelko212 32090 - Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:17 AMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:37 PMjcelko212 32090 - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:24 PMddly_ann - Monday, May 28, 2018 7:47 AMMr. Celko, for being a SQL Standards purist you seem to have a love fest for MySQL. You do realize that this site is For Microsoft SQL Server and not Oracle MySQL, correct? Stop hyping MySQL and actually provide some T-SQL help here.
I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I did work for the MySQL people and produced some website material. It was all about basic data modeling, etc. Having said this, the reason I keep mentioning their convention for temporal intervals is (1) it is being considered for ANSI ISO standards, thanks largely to the popularity of MySQL (2) it is language independent (3) it sorts properly with the rest of the ISO 8601 display format. In short, they are a good choice at the current time for conforming to international standards.
You probably don't remember this, but it one point thanks to the French (anytime something goes wrong in a standard, look for the French to have done something) NATO had a standard that used Roman numerals for months. No, really!
Since Microsoft has not implemented the ANSI/ISO standard interval data types in its temporal model, we have to do a "repair job" instead. If you have a better suggestion. I'd love to hear and put it in my books.
REALLY inappropriate thing to say, Joe.
I also hope that the attempt to sanction such non-sense as what they do in MySQL totally fails instantly. ""00" for day or month is inappropriate because there is no such thing as a 0 for day of the month or a month. The use of blanks would make it sort just fine if you were into sorting the mistake dates as character based values. Further, adding "00" to the standard would further perpetuate peoples' mistakes of storing such a thing in a table.
The sort of characterization by Joe is along the lines of the Churchill quote, "the americans will do the right thing, after they've done everything else" or something along those lines. I don't think his remark warranted the threadizen gang op you are inciting.
2 cents.
Yep, 2 cents worth... There's several million dollars worth of "Priceless Joe" rants on this site, and he has a well-established reputation for being a problematic curmudgeon and hypocrite on a VERY regular basis. According to what I've heard, he's apparently a nice guy in person, but frankly, given his online persona; which he is somewhat proud of, by the way; I'd really rather not ever meet him. He consistently tries to inject MySQL code here, often fails to look at the "whole" problem and only focuses on some arcane standard which he'll insist on criticizing you over violating, only to then make a suggestion that violates that very same standard. It's repeat, and consistent, so you can be quite sure every piece of criticism thrown his way is far more likely to be well deserved than inappropriate.
I can certainly confess to some biases here, I'm interested in what he says. But honestly, if yall want him gone its all good, its more your site then mine. I know most of the "thread" members have a very particular preference for how this site is run and that's fine, its not in my wheelhouse to determine the culture here.
Patrick,
At least call things what they are. Mr. Celko has the biases and is just not helping very many people. In all the years I've been on this site, I can only recall one post where Joe actually helped the original poster. Mind you, it;'s entirely possible that there were a couple more that I saw, but promptly forgot because of his rather nasty online persona. As at least 3 other posters agree, (Sean Lange, Jeff Moden, and myself), you are just as much a part of the community as everyone else. The simple but unfortunate fact of life is that not everyone plays nice all the time, and most of the folks familiar with Joe's persona are sick and tired of it. It's a shame to have you come into the middle of this and find out in a rather abrupt manner that you kinda unintentionally stepped in #2 because in someone's haste to post, their grammar went south and appeared to implicate you in a way that most of us that have been around here for a lot longer, already know was not what they meant. Try not to take too much offense from anything anyone says around here... after all, if you've ever mangled a post's grammar because of trying repeatedly to re-edit the same sentence, it's not hard to end up saying something that's just not very good (or sometimes, even nice). Typed commentary just isn't the same as a verbal conversation. Meaning can always be queried. That's much easier to do in a verbal conversation if you're actually knowing the person you're talking to, but nearly impossible for many folks when the other person is someone you really don't know from Adam.
I hear you, and I admit I'm pickier with whats typed. I even try to do the "in other words" on a few iterations to try to be unambiguous. I will not bet against someone validly criticizing me of parsing someones post down to the literal last nut and bolt, and I agree that its frustrating to be misinterpreted even as I admit to the chance that I've misinterpreted some too.
Yall are the ones offended by Joe, and I could be the only one who will regret his banning so whatever happens is fine, its really up to the complainers on this one. If you think he needs to go then you are the guys with the bigger investment here.
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