where to learn 'advanced' querying

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where to learn 'advanced' querying

Ivanna Noh

SSCarpal Tunnel

Points: 4138
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March 21, 2010 at 7:19 pm

#212852

Hi All
I'm curious to find out where some of the SQL 'ninjas' on this site learn their skills - especially when it comes to T-SQL. I won't attempt to name any names for fear of omitting someone :w00t: - but I frequently see examples of some very clever code on this site and wonder how people develop the skill, lateral thinking etc to come up with the posted solutions - some of which are very compact and elegant (the use of a tally table is a good example of this - how did that idea bubble up from the subconscious!?)
I realise that a lot of it comes down to experience and spending time on forum sites like this one, reading and trying to answer questions - but are there any other resources that have been useful to individuals in honing their skills? For example any particular books that have been invaluable or training courses...? Or anything to avoid for that matter!
looking forward to responses 🙂

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

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AndrewSQLDBA SSC-Insane Points: 21827 More actions · Answer 1

I suggest reading the SQL Books Online. They are the very best resource when it comes to SQL Server.

I think the BOL tells all

Andrew SQLDBA

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1003865 More actions · Answer 2

AndrewSQLDBA (3/22/2010)
I think the BOL tells all

I agree that it's a very good start but it won't teach you to think of things like how to use a Tally table for something in real life. It may teach you how to do a Cross Tab or Pivot, but it won't teach you that something like "pre-aggregation" will make it several times faster.

There are some "Ninja" books out there that do teach such things but, just like the internet, some of them have bad information in them, as well.

What I've found is that if you don't "practice" (ie: "play" with SQL at home and teach yourself something new everyday), reading all of the books in the world would only make you well read and won't necessarily make you an effective T-SQL solution provider. You simply have to do what every athelete dows to become good... practice the "sport" and "train the muscles". Heh... in this case, the "muscle" resides inside the calcium knob that people sport between their shoulders.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Ivanna Noh SSCarpal Tunnel Points: 4138 More actions · Answer 3

Thanks for replies to date 🙂

I already use books online (BOL) as a reference - and I also run some of the T-SQL code provided on this site for practice - both of which are great for learning.

What really impresses me though is not the knowledge of SQL syntax but the way that it is employed and the lateral thinking that is used in coming up with solutions (like the tally table)

If I could extend the topic a bit:

What formal training / education do the experts here have? Do you have a degree(s), MS Certification etc?, and how much work experience do you have?

non-experts feel free to reply as well!

Thanks

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 4

I tend to agree with Jeff. To become proficient at TSQL, practice a lot. Try some complex requirement and find a solution for it.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

DonaldW SSCarpal Tunnel Points: 4525 More actions · Answer 5

All of the above. Reading everything you can lay hands on is really useful, especially if it's something you have already read about but presented from a different perspective. While I'm by no means a ninja, it's amazing how often I'll hit a thorny problem or come up on a requirement that rings a bell from something I've read online (save those bookmarks!) or in books I've purchased. A little rooting around and I can usually dig up the reference(s) and get an elegant, well-performing solution.

Also, if you have a SQL Server user group in your area, get involved, attend the meetings, even present! Amazing how much you can learn not only from the presenters but from talking to other database professionals and listening to their problems and how they solved them or how others suggest they solve them. If you don't have a user group, start one. 😀 You might be surprised at how many other database people there are in your area who are looking for the same thing. If you are not sure whether there's a user group in your area, check the PASS[/url] web site. If there is a PASS-affiliated user group you will find it. If not, you will find some info on starting one.

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 6

Ivanna Noh (3/22/2010)
Thanks for replies to date 🙂
I already use books online (BOL) as a reference - and I also run some of the T-SQL code provided on this site for practice - both of which are great for learning.
What really impresses me though is not the knowledge of SQL syntax but the way that it is employed and the lateral thinking that is used in coming up with solutions (like the tally table)
If I could extend the topic a bit:
What formal training / education do the experts here have? Do you have a degree(s), MS Certification etc?, and how much work experience do you have?
non-experts feel free to reply as well!
Thanks

I have both a BS and a MA, neither of which gave me what I know now. They provided the background and frame work on which to build. Experience has been the greatest teacher, and this site (SSC) a great mentor in the process. People like Gail, Jeff, Grant, Gus, Jason, Barry, Sergiy, David (several of them actually), Paul, and many thers bring fresh insights into doing things. They support you when you're doing well, and critical (in a good way) when you mess up.

You want to learn advanced querying, this one place to be. Read the questions posted and the responses, try things yourself as well to answer the questions. And most of all, don't be afraid to ask questions yourself.

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 7

Regarding my post above, if I missed anyone (Alvin, Jack, Bob to name a few) apologies. There have been so many that have helped me learn new things and new ways to use old methods that it is hard to remember everyone.

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 8

Lynn Pettis (3/22/2010)
Regarding my post above, if I missed anyone (Alvin, Jack, Bob to name a few) apologies. There have been so many that have helped me learn new things and new ways to use old methods that it is hard to remember everyone.

Steve and Lynn would be another couple to name.

BTW, thanks for the compliments.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Dave Ballantyne SSC-Dedicated Points: 33566 More actions · Answer 9

CirquedeSQLeil (3/22/2010)
Try some complex requirement and find a solution for it.

Try some of the challenges here for some examples, avoid the urge to look at already published solutions first though.

Clear Sky SQL
My Blog[/url]