May 11, 2016 at 6:35 am
Will we lose jobs with the invention of the Cotton Gin? Sure, but there will always be something else.
May 11, 2016 at 7:11 am
I'm only 31 years old, so I don't have the level of experience of many others here, but I've never met someone who automated themselves out of a job. However, in my first job as a mortgage rate sheet technician I was able to automate so much that the team was downsized from four people to one and a half. I was that one full time employee left, so by creating efficiency I was able to hold onto my own job. Without it, I would have been the first to be laid off, since I was the last hired.
May 11, 2016 at 7:12 am
If you're organization is starting an IT automation initiative, then simply put: resistence is futile. When it does come time to downsize, then I guarantee you that those of you who are least familiar with the new process will be deemed the least valuable to the team. My advice is that you jump on board the automation project enthusiastically. Even if your current job doesn't work out, I'd say that database administration and deployment automation is a very valuable skill to have on your resume. You can earn a good living as an automation expert.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 12, 2016 at 12:07 am
Iwas Bornready (5/11/2016)
Will we lose jobs with the invention of the Cotton Gin? Sure, but there will always be something else.
Yep... weave the cotton and drink the gin. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 12, 2016 at 2:05 am
majorbloodnock (5/23/2012)
...Indispensable equals risk, and companies don't like that, so will attempt to reduce the risk so it's manageable. If that means reducing their capabilities in the process, well that's just an acceptable price to pay...
I saw this happen once where the person had extracted unbelievable concessions and compensation and was so vocal about his own importance.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 12, 2016 at 2:09 am
Revenant (5/23/2012)
Automation is a deal that involves lots of upfront investment for payback over time...
Often true but a lot of benefit can be attained by automating little by little. Perhaps, survival by a thousand cuts :satisfied:
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 12, 2016 at 2:14 am
Jeff Moden (5/23/2012)
I so often see people working in IT fail to take advantage of all the tools we have to automate much of their jobs.
Gosh... I think the exact opposite is true in many cases and the automation of those jobs is a huge problem for the rest of us...
It is a question of the right tool for the right job applied in the right manner.
Selection of tools is difficult and sometimes the hardest choice to justify is to correctly NOT use a tool.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 12, 2016 at 2:21 am
Gary Varga (5/12/2016)
majorbloodnock (5/23/2012)
...Indispensable equals risk, and companies don't like that, so will attempt to reduce the risk so it's manageable. If that means reducing their capabilities in the process, well that's just an acceptable price to pay...I saw this happen once where the person had extracted unbelievable concessions and compensation and was so vocal about his own importance.
It's rather sobering to reread what one wrote several years ago. I stand by what I meant when I posted that, Gary, but did you have to pick a quote that sounds so "corporate"? 😀
And whilst we're on the subject, can I please take the opportunity to apologise to Jeff Moden for how I ended up replying to him earlier in this thread. I still stand by the opinion, but Jeff surely didn't deserve that sarcasm. Only 4 years late - sorry, Jeff.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
May 12, 2016 at 7:38 am
Gary Varga (5/12/2016)
Jeff Moden (5/23/2012)
I so often see people working in IT fail to take advantage of all the tools we have to automate much of their jobs.
Gosh... I think the exact opposite is true in many cases and the automation of those jobs is a huge problem for the rest of us...
It is a question of the right tool for the right job applied in the right manner.
Selection of tools is difficult and sometimes the hardest choice to justify is to correctly NOT use a tool.
Sorry for the delayed response. In the air most of yesterday.
I think Jeff was getting at the point of poorly building automation. Slow (RBAR/cursor processes), overload from some tool running checks, poorly implemented and buggy. Perhaps there are cases where a tool shouldn't be used, but I think more, any tool needs to work well in the particular situation. If it doesn't, then there is a need to change tools, rebuild/reconfigure a tool, or find something else.
If I'm wrong, and this is a problem of employment, I'd say that we need to find ways to move people to other jobs, or retrain them. This is both an employee and employee issue.
May 12, 2016 at 7:40 am
majorbloodnock (5/12/2016)
Gary Varga (5/12/2016)
majorbloodnock (5/23/2012)
...Indispensable equals risk, and companies don't like that, so will attempt to reduce the risk so it's manageable. If that means reducing their capabilities in the process, well that's just an acceptable price to pay...I saw this happen once where the person had extracted unbelievable concessions and compensation and was so vocal about his own importance.
It's rather sobering to reread what one wrote several years ago. I stand by what I meant when I posted that, Gary, but did you have to pick a quote that sounds so "corporate"? 😀
And whilst we're on the subject, can I please take the opportunity to apologise to Jeff Moden for how I ended up replying to him earlier in this thread. I still stand by the opinion, but Jeff surely didn't deserve that sarcasm. Only 4 years late - sorry, Jeff.
Not sure I think lots of companies try to reduce risk here. I see far too many of them building a "Brent" (from The Phoenix Project), a bottleneck and dependability that they need. Some companies recognize this is a poor choice, but many seem to want to lean on the superstar or person who knows everything rather than forcing changes to spread the load and risk. At least this happens in plenty of US companies, and a few UK ones I've worked with.
May 13, 2016 at 1:17 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/12/2016)
Gary Varga (5/12/2016)
Jeff Moden (5/23/2012)
I so often see people working in IT fail to take advantage of all the tools we have to automate much of their jobs.
Gosh... I think the exact opposite is true in many cases and the automation of those jobs is a huge problem for the rest of us...
It is a question of the right tool for the right job applied in the right manner.
Selection of tools is difficult and sometimes the hardest choice to justify is to correctly NOT use a tool.
Sorry for the delayed response. In the air most of yesterday.
I think Jeff was getting at the point of poorly building automation. Slow (RBAR/cursor processes), overload from some tool running checks, poorly implemented and buggy. Perhaps there are cases where a tool shouldn't be used, but I think more, any tool needs to work well in the particular situation. If it doesn't, then there is a need to change tools, rebuild/reconfigure a tool, or find something else.
If I'm wrong, and this is a problem of employment, I'd say that we need to find ways to move people to other jobs, or retrain them. This is both an employee and employee issue.
Good point well made. I wasn't thinking of that (valid) perspective.
Oh and apologising for the delay? You are kidding, right? I was responding to Jeff's post from almost 4 years ago!!! :laugh:
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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