February 16, 2012 at 11:59 am
Sometimes these discussions seem to just go off into the ether.
That is why they are called "discussion forums". There is no requirement here to stay exactly on topic. Threads are allowed to do that. I have been told that many times before here by many different people. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 16, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Mike Palecek (2/13/2012)
I have always held that having certifications in general do not mean anything, however NOT having the certifications means a whole lot.Having them: yeah...great...you took an exam... so what.
Not having them: You cannot even be bothered to take a silly exam and pass? Especially when the next three candidates have them.
Which isn't even logical. But it doesn't have to be logical to be real, does it.
I haven't got any certs. Because I can't be bothered to take a silly exam. Hasn't hurt my job prospects or pay yet.
But what do I know? I'm just a guy who has a great job, with great pay and benefits, for a great company, who had to choose between several great offers the last time I was job hunting. Definitely not an expert on the benefits of certs.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
If you feel otherwise please point these alleged brain dumps out.Here's everything you need to know to pass the MCM lab:
Drop all the primary keys.
Then just close the exam. Trust me. It's like up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-B-A-Start. Instant pass, plus unlimited ammo.
I LOVE IT!!
Perfect exam!
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
No, I'm quite serious. Please feel free to purchase the so called MCM materials those sites offer. I assure you that it won't help you pass.If someone is offering to sell you something illegal, you can't take them at their word that what they're selling you is real.
You either need to provide proof of some sort that those "brain dumps" are, indeed, junk, or somehow back that up.
The only way for Travis (or anyone) to prove that there is a "real brain dump" is to (a) do something illegal, (b) pay for the exam, (c) pass it because of the brain-dump, and (d) provide proof to you that he did something illegal. If it fails at (c), he's still done something illegal and taken a multi-thousand dollar risk to prove the point. That's high risk for him, and doesn't actually prove anything at all about either assertion, unless he somehow accesses EVERY brain dump on the subject and each one of them fails to allow him to pass.
You are claiming you are in a position to dismiss all of those (and all other alleged brain dumps on that exam) as being false. You don't have to do anything illegal to prove your point, and you're the one claiming that Einstein was wrong. "No amount of experimentation can prove that I'm right, but it only takes one experiment to prove I'm wrong." You're the one saying that ALL MCM brain dumps are invalid. That statement is unprovable, but you are claiming it is a certainty. (Do you also dine at Milliway's?)
Note: I'm stongly opposed to brain dumps and all that. I also think most certs are useless, and the rest aren't good investments for me. But I'm even more strongly opposed to logical fallacies like what you're stating, sir. Especially when they are then used to back up insults to people who have not acted to personally offend you first.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
So, what you are basically saying is I or anyone else has never ordered and actually got a usable braindump from one of those sites just to confirm that they DO in fact exist? Would you like to put a little money on that my man? 😀Absolutely - in fact, I'll put a lot of money on it. I'll bet you $650 right here and now that you can't pass the MCM knowledge exam in the next 7 days. That $650 covers both the cost of the exam plus the cost of the braindump.
Ball's in your court.
Logical fallacy here:
That would test ONE brain dump. Not ALL. You'd have to pay him to get every possibly "brain dump" that is available anywhere to prove the point that there are NONE that will do the job. It's not possible to prove that point. You're engaged in an act of faith, not one of assertable fact.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Perhaps my wording was a little too strong. However, I asked him to provide evidence of the existence of brain dumps of the MCM exams and none of his links were selling brain dumps of the MCM exams. Even those sites in the business of selling brain dumps stated that there are no brain dumps for the MCM exams.
Nonetheless, we have put considerable effort into ensuring that someone wouldn't be able to generate a brain dump for the MCM exams, and I've yet to see any real evidence that one exists. The lack of evidence supports my claims and challenges his.
February 16, 2012 at 1:51 pm
chrisn-585491 (2/16/2012)
Damn, damn, damn!!!! They told me that there were only 2 rainbow pooping leprechauns when I bought them!
Better feed them lots of fiber, otherwise it will be Rainbow-By-Agonizing-Rainbow! 😀
SPOM!!! I can't even talk right now!:-P
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 16, 2012 at 2:49 pm
GSquared (2/16/2012)
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
So, what you are basically saying is I or anyone else has never ordered and actually got a usable braindump from one of those sites just to confirm that they DO in fact exist? Would you like to put a little money on that my man? 😀Absolutely - in fact, I'll put a lot of money on it. I'll bet you $650 right here and now that you can't pass the MCM knowledge exam in the next 7 days. That $650 covers both the cost of the exam plus the cost of the braindump.
Ball's in your court.
Logical fallacy here:
That would test ONE brain dump. Not ALL. You'd have to pay him to get every possibly "brain dump" that is available anywhere to prove the point that there are NONE that will do the job. It's not possible to prove that point. You're engaged in an act of faith, not one of assertable fact.
Exactly!!!! I thought Brent should have already known that but I guess not. Not only that, they have multiple different tests for one exam. So like you said, you would have to have more than one dump, but that doesn't mean they are not out there to cover those as well. People have used many of them before and just memorized all of them and got lucky. But that was my point. That would take more than 7 days to do, so I decided not to take him up on that after he gave me only 7 days for one dump. That is a sucker bet, but it had nothing to do with me agreeing that it could not be done. This snippet is right off one of the sites I provided: Not my words.
"MCM dumps are liked by all the prospective candidates for MCM exams. The best source of obtaining MCM dumps is the internet where you can find hundreds of websites having dumps on all the important certification exams. As the braindumps help you knowing the most expected questions regarding your certification exam, the braindumps are prepared by almost all the candidates. An MCM braindump is thought to be a great feast for candidates. The feedback and comments of the successful candidates highlight the importance of MCM braindump. Most of the IT professionals having MCM certification claim that it was possible only with the help of MCM brain dump. By mastering all the contents of MCM brain dump, they were able to get through easily the certification exam. Some of the websites on the internet provide the facility of free download of MCM dumps.. The candidates for the certification should also visit these websites to benefit themselves and equip their knowledge for a sure and definite success." 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 16, 2012 at 4:34 pm
TravisDBA (2/16/2012)
That would take more than 7 days to do, so I decided not to take him up on that after he gave me only 7 days for one dump. That is a sucker bet, but it had nothing to do with me agreeing that it could not be done.
Then Robert's original question remains: you said there were MCM braindumps out there, and we asked you to prove it. Pointing to order forms doesn't prove that something exists. The ball is still in your court, and I see a lot of dribbling (in more ways than one) but you're not scoring any points.
February 16, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Yes, I found one of those sites a while back claiming to have MCMs that had achieved the certification using their brain dumps. But the following is a fact: 100% of the names they listed as MCMs that had passed with their brain dumps do not hold an MCM certification.
Having taken the exams myself, helped author the current exams, and running the program, I know a great deal more than just about anyone about the feasibility of brain dumps existing.
February 16, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
Order Form for Rainbow-Pooping Leprechaun: $99.95. Quantity desired: ____
Why oh why has this never come up in any of the sessions at PASS? Where do I send my cheque Brent? One question though....do they know anything about running SQL Server on VMWare?
February 16, 2012 at 11:07 pm
With the MCM you still have to pass the lab portion. No amount of braindumps or exam crams is going to help you there. Disregarding that part of the certification process in unfair and renders the entire argument invalid. You have to argue on the facts: there is a knowledge exam (of which there may/may not be valid braindumps) AND a practical exam (of which there are no braindumps).
It's a simple bitwise AND operation: you achieve both or you achieve none. That's what separates the wheat from the chaff.
James Stover, McDBA
February 16, 2012 at 11:26 pm
James Stover (2/16/2012)
That's what separates the wheat from the chaff.
I love that saying! Especially when someone counters with, "what the heck is 'chaff'?".
February 17, 2012 at 4:16 am
Was at the NTSSUG meeting last night with a class being taught by Sean and the main presentation given by Kal, both who are MCM certified. The question came up from a attendee on what to study to get MCM certification and both responded that it's more of a experience test, not something that could actually be crammed/dumped for.
February 17, 2012 at 6:36 am
Robert Davis (2/16/2012)
Perhaps my wording was a little too strong. However, I asked him to provide evidence of the existence of brain dumps of the MCM exams and none of his links were selling brain dumps of the MCM exams. Even those sites in the business of selling brain dumps stated that there are no brain dumps for the MCM exams.Nonetheless, we have put considerable effort into ensuring that someone wouldn't be able to generate a brain dump for the MCM exams, and I've yet to see any real evidence that one exists. The lack of evidence supports my claims and challenges his.
Now that's a statement you can stand behind. Thanks.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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