Unlimited PTO

  • Eric, correct - its paid time off/vacation, not a leave of absence.

  • ZZartin, I'm sure its all in the implementation. Where I'm at now its just not a big deal to take a day off, or take a couple hours off during the day to run errands or whatever. Still have to be mindful of meeting personal and team goals, once in a while there will be a 'try hard to not miss meeting', but its not hard to make it work.

  • ZZartin - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 11:54 AM

    I doubt it's really as free form as take off whenever you want, unless you're working almost exclusively on solo projects that require little to no interaction with others that sounds like a recipe for being able to blame employees for not being available when needed.

    Yes, and being able to work remotely anytime and anywhere would make it even more confusing and troublesome. If your coworkers don't see you walk in the door, then they'll assume you're a slacker who has taken yet another PTO day. If you're not generally liked, then it will be very easy for coworkers to make assumptions first and ask questions later.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • With unlimited PTO you don't accrue, you just use as you go. If you miss/yearn the for the comfort of having 60 days or whatever banked, its not the right system.

  • Robert, as far as 2 hours a day, common sense prevails. That is really a scheduling issue more than a PTO one. It comes down to trust - can I trust you to set reasonable goals and work towards those goals at a reasonable pace? If so, then the rest tends to work out. If the employee sets out to work as few hours as possible, I imagine over time that becomes a problem.

  • Does then PTO policy apply to everyone in the company or only executive management?

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • Eric, we handle status via a Slack channel. If you're remote or out of office, you just drop a note in the channel to let everyone know. I make it a point to work remote 2 or 3 days a week, and I vary those days based on both personal and work schedules. Some days I want/need to be there for meetings or general collaboration, some days I want the quiet of working at home. We have some who are in the office 99% of the time, some that are remote 99% of the time, but most of the team is in the office for I'd guess 70% of the time.

  • Eric, its everyone. Each team has some informal process about how it works. On my team (operations), we all try to be available between 10 am and 4 pm. Not an absolute, but its time when we can connect live, even if that means a Hangout.

  • Andy Warren - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 12:01 PM

    ZZartin, I'm sure its all in the implementation. Where I'm at now its just not a big deal to take a day off, or take a couple hours off during the day to run errands or whatever. Still have to be mindful of meeting personal and team goals, once in a while there will be a 'try hard to not miss meeting', but its not hard to make it work.

    Lol it's certainly better than one place I worked, salaried employees were required to clock in at least 40 hours a week or get dinged pay/vacation time.  There was no bonus for clocking in more than 40 hours a week and IT had full unmonitored access to the timeclock system.... :Whistling: 

  • It sounds like a winner to me.  When I heard of a company talk up their unlimited PTO, game rooms, snacks in the office every morning, etc., I became immediately suspicious.  They must be working their people like dogs while they're in the office with 12+ hour days or with such unreasonable goals and work schedule that they'll never be allowed to take any time off.  It's really quite refreshing to learn from an employee's perspective that it can work.

  • Ed Wagner - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:19 PM

    It sounds like a winner to me.  When I heard of a company talk up their unlimited PTO, game rooms, snacks in the office every morning, etc., I became immediately suspicious.  They must be working their people like dogs while they're in the office with 12+ hour days or with such unreasonable goals and work schedule that they'll never be allowed to take any time off.  It's really quite refreshing to learn from an employee's perspective that it can work.

    I can picture this working for a small or medium sized product oriented IT firm where most of the staff are senior level and accomplish things in bursts of creativity and focused sprints. However, I doubt it would work for teachers, police officers, or factory workers.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • Eric M Russell - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:44 PM

    Ed Wagner - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:19 PM

    It sounds like a winner to me.  When I heard of a company talk up their unlimited PTO, game rooms, snacks in the office every morning, etc., I became immediately suspicious.  They must be working their people like dogs while they're in the office with 12+ hour days or with such unreasonable goals and work schedule that they'll never be allowed to take any time off.  It's really quite refreshing to learn from an employee's perspective that it can work.

    I can picture this working for a small or medium sized product oriented IT firm where most of the staff are senior level and accomplish things in bursts of creativity and focused sprints. However, I doubt it would work for teachers, police officers, or factory workers.

    Agreed - I saw it for a medium-sized, product-focused IT firm that doesn't use agile.  They did make a serious play for me, but I thought what was in the article - "If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't true."

  • As someone working in the UK, it's kind of jarring when you're saying a job offers unlimited time off, and it works out to taking about 3-4 weeks per year (varying by individual of course)!

    In this country the minimum annual leave a full time employee can be given in their contract is 28 days, which is generally the 8 national holidays and 20 days to take whenever. Where I work we get the 8 national holidays and then 25 days to take whenever, which is fairly average.

    There's a very different attitude to time off on each side of the pond!

  • Ed, absolutely a lot of professions/environments where flex time is hard or close to impossible, or unlimited PTO. The team I'm with is definitely agile, releasing changes every week. Works for us. Not saying it works everywhere:-)

  • killer.turtle13 - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:36 PM

    As someone working in the UK, it's kind of jarring when you're saying a job offers unlimited time off, and it works out to taking about 3-4 weeks per year (varying by individual of course)!

    In this country the minimum annual leave a full time employee can be given in their contract is 28 days, which is generally the 8 national holidays and 20 days to take whenever. Where I work we get the 8 national holidays and then 25 days to take whenever, which is fairly average.

    There's a very different attitude to time off on each side of the pond!

    Regardless of whether an American's background is European, African, or Hispanic; most of us descended from ancestors who were dumped on the cold shore and left to fend for ourselves, struggling and competing to get ahead. Despite our relatively high standard of living today, that distant cultural memory has left it's mark on the American psyche regarding work, politics, and interpersonal relationships.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

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