The Separation of Tools

  • Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Separation of Tools

  • ADS, Azure Data Studio, is a pain to install on a non-internet-connected machine. To date, SSMS can be installed without any hassles. Apart from some dev machines, none of my infrastructure has direct (not even indirect/proxy) access to the internet. Bundling ADS with SSMS is not a good idea, for me.

  • Let's hope they keep them separate forever and realize that not everyone is ever even going to go near Azure and that SSMS needs to be maintained.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    "Dear Lord... I'm a DBA so please give me patience because, if you give me strength, I'm going to need bail money too!"

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Didn't the DOJ ding Microsoft for these "bundling" practices back in the 90s?

  • I like both SSMS and ADS. I have both installed on any development machine I have access to. (I won't put it on a server, as that's not my business.) Personally, I prefer ADS to SSMS. I love the SQL development in ADS to SSMS. We don't have Redgate's SQL Prompt here and I very strongly doubt that management will pay for it, even for the DBAs. Much to the loss of the DBAs. Anyway ADS, at least for me, fits the SQL writing slot.

    The one area that SSMS is far superior to ADS, in my experience, is being able to see what's in a database, dependencies for a table or view, etc. Many is the time I've tried opening ADS to open a database and look at the columns of a table, but ADS is, for whatever reason, much slower than SSMS. For that reason alone I won't give up SSMS.

    Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.

  • I don't particularly care if they're bundled as long as I can still install SSMS easily and SSMS is kept up to date.

    As for functionality?  If I was purely doing SQL Development ADS would be a superior tool but I quickly found while trying to use it that I end up doing enough admin type stuff like permissions etc.... that SSMS is just more over all usable.

  • D_ wrote:

    Didn't the DOJ ding Microsoft for these "bundling" practices back in the 90s?

    Dunno but I'm thinking they might need another "ding" in multiple areas.  They gotten way to arrogant especially when it comes to what they have your system "phone home" about and their virtually insurmountable forced reboots in Windows 10.  Their RTMs have also sucked pretty badly since 2005.  So have many of their "features" in both Windows and SQL Server.  The RTM from 2017 was a performance train wreck, IMHO.  I'm scared to death about migrating to 2019 because of all the supposed "performance improvements".  The last big one I had to deal with was the "New Improved Cardinality Estimator", which crushed us when we moved from 2012 to 2019.  Thank goodness for the trace flag that would let us use the old one.

     

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    "Dear Lord... I'm a DBA so please give me patience because, if you give me strength, I'm going to need bail money too!"

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • I remember using Skype on Pentium II 350MHz computer. With pretty good sound and video quality, no stuttering or delays. That was before MS acquired it.

    And after - how much of incredible useful new functionality was added by MS to Skype, that it cannot deliver a sustainable video call on 2 core 3GHz CPU?

    _____________
    Code for TallyGenerator

  • Jeff Moden wrote:

    Let's hope they keep them separate forever and realize that not everyone is ever even going to go near Azure and that SSMS needs to be maintained.

    I'm guess your organization is not one of those going "all in the cloud".

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • I can see why keeping SSMS and ADS separate, both in functionality and as an installation, would make sense at this point, because it's on-prem versus Azure.

    However, I have been thinking for years that all the unique SQL Server functionality in SSDT should be incorporated into SSMS, and then SSDT get's retired. Stuff like schema / data comparison and creating SSIS / deployment packages is something that on-prem DBA's do.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • Eric M Russell wrote:

    I can see why keeping SSMS and ADS separate, both in functionality and as an installation, would make sense at this point, because it's on-prem versus Azure.

    However, I have been thinking for years that all the unique SQL Server functionality in SSDT should be incorporated into SSMS, and then SSDT get's retired. Stuff like schema / data comparison and creating SSIS / deployment packages is something that on-prem DBA's do.

    + 1 Billion!

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    "Dear Lord... I'm a DBA so please give me patience because, if you give me strength, I'm going to need bail money too!"

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

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