January 22, 2016 at 10:49 am
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.
January 22, 2016 at 11:58 am
mjh 45389 (1/22/2016)
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.
I just love postings like that. I don't think they ever found anyone with SQL 2011 experience. 😉
January 22, 2016 at 11:59 am
Wow, lively discussions when a topic hits your wallet!
And now, a story.
Many years ago, I became a database administrator via the accidental dba path having started as a web developer and MS Access programmer. I worked for a small company that got bought by a bigger company. The bigger company didn't have a SQL Server dba so I was it.
At that time I was making $60k/yr. For my experience, skills, and the work I was doing all of the salary surveys I looked at said I should be making $86k/yr. That's a difference of ~43%.
I approached my boss with my research, numbers, projects, quality of work, performance reviews and asked for a raise/market adjustment to $86k/yr.
Unfortunately this had to take place over the phone and he busted out laughing at me and then hung up.
I felt like crap.
Turns out he must have felt bad too because to his credit he presented my case and data to the CIO and I got it!
If I had waited for the company to just give me cost of living or modest raises I never would have gotten a true market wage for my skills. My point on this story is that YOU have to be the one to take charge of your career and your salary. No one is going to do it for you. It is sad that switching jobs provides a greater opportunity to get more money than staying in one place and doing a great job and getting modest raises but that is the nature of the market.
I have been both lucky and fortunate that I have successfully increased my salary over my career and I am making more money now that I ever have but note that I also have bigger expenses that come with age. And it's not just about money- there are different stresses and challenges that comes with it so I hope people are not solely focused on how much money they can make.
I do know people who make > $150k/yr working with SQL Server at large companies. I'm not there yet. I think the top paid people in our industry are efficient and effective experts and deserve the money they make because of the value that they provide. And they genuinely love what they do. I also think they work long, hard hours and travel a lot too.
For grins and giggles I took a welding class a while back. The welding instructor made $150k/yr. Yes, he had years of experience and was a practicing expert but it was the love of the craft and the desire to be great that drove him.
Finally I know some executives who make millions a year and could retire tomorrow if they wanted to but they love what they do so they keep working. They also have a different set of stresses and challenges. Some have had heart attacks because of work related issues.
Maybe my career 2.0 will be becoming a data scientist? It's the work going on in data science that excites me, not just the money. We will see.
January 22, 2016 at 11:59 am
Gary Varga (1/22/2016)
GSquared (7/25/2011)
...There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free...Beers on you now G2!!! 😛
Since that post was made in 2011, I honestly hope G2 made it and is now debt-free.
January 22, 2016 at 12:22 pm
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
mjh 45389 (1/22/2016)
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.I just love postings like that. I don't think they ever found anyone with SQL 2011 experience. 😉
No, a reference to "SQL 2011" isn't a foul ball.
"SQL:2011 or ISO/IEC 9075:2011 is the seventh revision of the ISO and ANSI standard..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL:2011
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 23, 2016 at 9:09 am
tkleinhans 1851 (1/22/2016)
Wow, lively discussions when a topic hits your wallet!And now, a story.
Many years ago, I became a database administrator via the accidental dba path having started as a web developer and MS Access programmer. I worked for a small company that got bought by a bigger company. The bigger company didn't have a SQL Server dba so I was it.
At that time I was making $60k/yr. For my experience, skills, and the work I was doing all of the salary surveys I looked at said I should be making $86k/yr. That's a difference of ~43%.
I approached my boss with my research, numbers, projects, quality of work, performance reviews and asked for a raise/market adjustment to $86k/yr.
Unfortunately this had to take place over the phone and he busted out laughing at me and then hung up.
I felt like crap.
Turns out he must have felt bad too because to his credit he presented my case and data to the CIO and I got it!
If I had waited for the company to just give me cost of living or modest raises I never would have gotten a true market wage for my skills. My point on this story is that YOU have to be the one to take charge of your career and your salary. No one is going to do it for you. It is sad that switching jobs provides a greater opportunity to get more money than staying in one place and doing a great job and getting modest raises but that is the nature of the market.
I have been both lucky and fortunate that I have successfully increased my salary over my career and I am making more money now that I ever have but note that I also have bigger expenses that come with age. And it's not just about money- there are different stresses and challenges that comes with it so I hope people are not solely focused on how much money they can make.
I do know people who make > $150k/yr working with SQL Server at large companies. I'm not there yet. I think the top paid people in our industry are efficient and effective experts and deserve the money they make because of the value that they provide. And they genuinely love what they do. I also think they work long, hard hours and travel a lot too.
For grins and giggles I took a welding class a while back. The welding instructor made $150k/yr. Yes, he had years of experience and was a practicing expert but it was the love of the craft and the desire to be great that drove him.
Finally I know some executives who make millions a year and could retire tomorrow if they wanted to but they love what they do so they keep working. They also have a different set of stresses and challenges. Some have had heart attacks because of work related issues.
Maybe my career 2.0 will be becoming a data scientist? It's the work going on in data science that excites me, not just the money. We will see.
WOW! I wish that would happen to me. Not for lack of trying, mind you. In the past when I've gone to my boss and told them what the market value is for someone in my position in my area, the response has been, "That's nice." And that's it. However, I've worked in the non-profit world for many years. Your salary is totally dictated by whatever the budget is and what policy makers (normally politicians someone) say it will be. They don't know you from Adam's off ox, so you can forget getting any raise based upon market conditions.
Rod
January 25, 2016 at 3:51 am
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
Gary Varga (1/22/2016)
GSquared (7/25/2011)
...There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free...Beers on you now G2!!! 😛
Since that post was made in 2011, I honestly hope G2 made it and is now debt-free.
Exactly. Obviously my comment was driven by jealousy...still working to get there 😉
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 25, 2016 at 5:47 am
Gary Varga (1/25/2016)
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
Gary Varga (1/22/2016)
GSquared (7/25/2011)
...There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free...Beers on you now G2!!! 😛
Since that post was made in 2011, I honestly hope G2 made it and is now debt-free.
Exactly. Obviously my comment was driven by jealousy...still working to get there 😉
Never give up, Gary. It is possible, but it seems like it takes forever.
January 26, 2016 at 8:43 am
Eric M Russell (1/22/2016)
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
mjh 45389 (1/22/2016)
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.I just love postings like that. I don't think they ever found anyone with SQL 2011 experience. 😉
No, a reference to "SQL 2011" isn't a foul ball.
"SQL:2011 or ISO/IEC 9075:2011 is the seventh revision of the ISO and ANSI standard..."
In my case it was! No mention of SQL 2011 was made until near the end of a near two hour interview. Before the interview I had taken skills tests in computer technology, C programming and SQL with only one error when I used a deprecated syntax. Just an excuse made up I believe by a relative youngster (team leader) who joined us near the end of the interview.
January 26, 2016 at 9:16 am
mjh 45389 (1/26/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/22/2016)
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
mjh 45389 (1/22/2016)
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.I just love postings like that. I don't think they ever found anyone with SQL 2011 experience. 😉
No, a reference to "SQL 2011" isn't a foul ball.
"SQL:2011 or ISO/IEC 9075:2011 is the seventh revision of the ISO and ANSI standard..."
In my case it was! No mention of SQL 2011 was made until near the end of a near two hour interview. Before the interview I had taken skills tests in computer technology, C programming and SQL with only one error when I used a deprecated syntax. Just an excuse made up I believe by a relative youngster (team leader) who joined us near the end of the interview.
I've applied for jobs where one of the pre-qualifications was to complete a standardized assment in the form of a multiple choice questionaire. It's the type of test where you sit in a room alone and fill it out by shading tiny circles with a #2 pencil, and they are typical for federal government and insurance related organizations who think the can derive some insight into an individuals character and potential using analytics. Below are a couple of examples that I still recall 15 years later, because they were so damn stupid.
"You feel involved when watching TV soaps."
Strongly Agree | Agree | Uncertain | Disagree | Strongly Disagree
"You can't cook an omelet without breaking a few eggs."
Strongly Agree | Agree | Uncertain | Disagree | Strongly Disagree
...
...
2 down and 498 more questions to go!
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 26, 2016 at 11:13 am
Eric M Russell (1/26/2016)
mjh 45389 (1/26/2016)
Eric M Russell (1/22/2016)
Ed Wagner (1/22/2016)
mjh 45389 (1/22/2016)
I think I am somewhat underpaid but I do work in a pleasant location with agreeable individuals which is worth a lot in itself. The problem seems to be that when you pass fifty many companies value youth above experience despite often having quite a churn of staff. One company turned me down as my most recent experience had been with SQL 2008 and they said they wanted 2011 experience (was not in their advert). To me it was a pathetic excuse to hide ageism. Recruitment agencies are also a bug bear. I was offered approximately 25% less for a similar job through an agency as companies seem to want to recuperate their costs from the employee.I just love postings like that. I don't think they ever found anyone with SQL 2011 experience. 😉
No, a reference to "SQL 2011" isn't a foul ball.
"SQL:2011 or ISO/IEC 9075:2011 is the seventh revision of the ISO and ANSI standard..."
In my case it was! No mention of SQL 2011 was made until near the end of a near two hour interview. Before the interview I had taken skills tests in computer technology, C programming and SQL with only one error when I used a deprecated syntax. Just an excuse made up I believe by a relative youngster (team leader) who joined us near the end of the interview.
I've applied for jobs where one of the pre-qualifications was to complete a standardized assment in the form of a multiple choice questionaire. It's the type of test where you sit in a room alone and fill it out by shading tiny circles with a #2 pencil, and they are typical for federal government and insurance related organizations who think the can derive some insight into an individuals character and potential using analytics. Below are a couple of examples that I still recall 15 years later, because they were so damn stupid.
"You feel involved when watching TV soaps."
Strongly Agree | Agree | Uncertain | Disagree | Strongly Disagree
"You can't cook an omelet without breaking a few eggs."
Strongly Agree | Agree | Uncertain | Disagree | Strongly Disagree
...
...
2 down and 498 more questions to go!
When I was out of work and job hunting in early 2014 one company gave me four skills tests and a variant of an IQ test. I got 49/50 in the IQ test and when I asked what the correct answer was to the one I got wrong nobody could tell me which was no surprise as it was a question written in such a way there was no right answer! I did not get a job offer as allegedly my salary expectations were too high - I suspect ageism. Subsequently I saw them advertising for fresh graduates at higher salaries!
February 17, 2016 at 4:42 pm
cengland0 (7/22/2011)
Salary depends on location and job responsibilities.
Exactly.
February 25, 2016 at 4:32 pm
I know that I'm paid well. I don't want to know that I'm not.
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