Should Salary Information Be Confidential?

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994663

    Heh... my salary is no one's business. Even my immediate supervisor has no clue what I make. If a company were to publish my salary, I could retire early because of the lawsuit winnings.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Alan Burstein

    SSC Guru

    Points: 61037

    I had boss once, a VP, who was not all that bright and he would share his Outlook calendar; nothing wrong with that - we all shared our calendars (and kept some meetings private). The problem was that he would sometimes meet with other VPs and attach documents to those appointments that he intended to discuss. On a couple occasions he attached a spreadsheet with people's salaries (including his own). Once word got out pretty much everyone looked at it and It was a disaster, a complete disaster. It completely changed the dynamic in the office. Any animosity that existed between co-workers was magnified 10-fold.

    I have always been against sharing salary information and this experience confirmed why it's a terrible idea.

    Posting the salaries of public employees is fine because we, as tax payers, pay those salaries. Private company salary information should be always be private and employees should be discouraged from disclosing this info. I support that fully. It's nobody's business.

    Edit: fixed errors, android auto-fix screwed me again.

    -- Alan Burstein


    Helpful links:Best practices for getting help on SQLServerCentral -- Jeff ModenHow to Post Performance Problems -- Gail ShawNasty fast set-based string manipulation functions:For splitting strings try DelimitedSplit8K or DelimitedSplit8K_LEAD (SQL Server 2012+)To split strings based on patterns try PatternSplitCMNeed to clean or transform a string? try NGrams, PatExclude8K, PatReplace8K, DigitsOnlyEE, or Translate8KI cant stress enough the importance of switching from a sequential files mindset to set-based thinking. After you make the switch, you can spend your time tuning and optimizing your queries instead of maintaining lengthy, poor-performing code.  -- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001

  • Andy Warren

    SSC Guru

    Points: 119676

    Comments posted to this topic are about the item Should Salary Information Be Confidential?

  • Yet Another DBA

    SSCarpal Tunnel

    Points: 4299

    It is not lawful to disclose individual salaries in the EU as the Data Protection Directive name salary as personal information. You can say what the group average salary is, as long as it doesnt suggest what an individuals salary is.

    I had a colleague who everyone knew wanted to get paid more and wanted to know what my salary was so he could get paid the same. Same guy who after 2 days worth of meeting asked what a null was :rolleyes:

  • steeleye1

    Grasshopper

    Points: 23

    It seems to me that the only reason that it can be a "disaster" to share salary information is because of inequality. I suspect the people who make more than the norm are the ones who don't want others to know and the ones who make less want to know. I work for the state of Virginia and because of FOIA our salaries are published in the Richmond Times Dispatch. So I know what my coworkers make and it actually keeps a more level playing field in our 'industry'.

  • Andy Warren

    SSC Guru

    Points: 119676

    Why is it bad if others know what you make? Aside from pride/legal constraints on the employer and all that, why is the idea of others knowing what you make bad/scary/something? Jeff, why it would it be bad for your boss to know what you make?

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994663

    Andy Warren (6/5/2015)


    Why is it bad if others know what you make? Aside from pride/legal constraints on the employer and all that, why is the idea of others knowing what you make bad/scary/something? Jeff, why it would it be bad for your boss to know what you make?

    Because I might actually be making more than he is.

    Now, let me ask you a question Andy. How much do you make a year?

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Dave62

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 6417

    A good question to ask during an interview – when was the most recent salary analysis done for the position in the local market? That may give you information, leverage, or both!

    I've never had to ask this in an interview and have even been told by recruiters not to mention salary at the interview. I'm always told the title, job description, and salary range for the open position by the recruiter before the interview. So I know beforehand whether they are competitive with the local market. If not, I won't bother with the interview and we move on to the next opportunity.

    For my last few positions, I haven't had to negotiate salary or sign-on bonus directly with the potential employer. So those conversations never come up, by me, in interviews. I've discussed those details with my recruiters and they won't present a position to me unless it's in line with what we've discussed.

    I can see how this question would be good if one is not using a recruiter. But I stopped doing that in the '90's when I discovered that 3 or 4 recruiters can get me a lot more interviews than I can get on my own. 🙂

    Enjoy!

  • Andy Warren

    SSC Guru

    Points: 119676

    Jeff, I'll take you up on that. This year, about a 100k. Two years ago, 250k. It varies based on how much I want to work, how much I want to travel, how entrepreneurial I am. Orlando is an ok market for DBA's. I suspect the average is 80-85k, and not many jobs over 100k advertised - though they are out there if you look.

  • Andy Warren

    SSC Guru

    Points: 119676

    Dave, I would never interview without knowing the range, but I'd never let a recruiter negotiate the salary for me. It's not just cash, it's the whole deal. For example, maybe they want to offer mid range, but I get them to add in an annual trip to PASS - call it another $2500. Recruiter won't ask or make the pitch well.

  • Andy Warren

    SSC Guru

    Points: 119676

    Jeff, if you make me more that he does, that's his problem isn't it? It's entirely possible you do on a salary basis, but for most managers the difference is in the bonus - anyway from 10-50% annually (average is probably 20% or so). It's not an uncommon situation for a new manager to be paid less than an experienced/valued employee. If he doesn't like it, he can negotiate for more:-)

  • Michael L John

    One Orange Chip

    Points: 25759

    Andy Warren (6/5/2015)


    Jeff, if you make me more that he does, that's his problem isn't it? It's entirely possible you do on a salary basis, but for most managers the difference is in the bonus - anyway from 10-50% annually (average is probably 20% or so). It's not an uncommon situation for a new manager to be paid less than an experienced/valued employee. If he doesn't like it, he can negotiate for more:-)

    This is exactly the case for not sharing salary info. While YOU may not cause a problem if an employee makes more than you do, others likely will be.

    Michael L John
    If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
    To properly post on a forum:
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994663

    Andy Warren (6/5/2015)


    Jeff, if you make me more that he does, that's his problem isn't it? It's entirely possible you do on a salary basis, but for most managers the difference is in the bonus - anyway from 10-50% annually (average is probably 20% or so). It's not an uncommon situation for a new manager to be paid less than an experienced/valued employee. If he doesn't like it, he can negotiate for more:-)

    Ah... but that's not the point of this conversation. The point is (and to add another voice to what Michael posted above) that even my immediate supervisor doesn't actually need to know what I make. Certainly my peers don't. When people find out how much their peers make and, especially if they make less, they start the all too human comparison game and it's totally non-productive. Each person should either be happy with their salary or not. If they're not, they should either ask for more (along with the justification of why they think they deserve more) or find a different job.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 994663

    Andy Warren (6/5/2015)


    Jeff, I'll take you up on that. This year, about a 100k. Two years ago, 250k. It varies based on how much I want to work, how much I want to travel, how entrepreneurial I am. Orlando is an ok market for DBA's. I suspect the average is 80-85k, and not many jobs over 100k advertised - though they are out there if you look.

    Heh... your LinkedIn profile says you're a "consultant" and not a regular salaried full time employee... which is what we're talking about.

    I also have to admit that I'm pretty well surprised that you'd cough up such information even as a consultant. I'd never do that because, for me anyway, it's no one else's business.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."
    When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 3|8 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. 😉

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Robert Sterbal

    SSChampion

    Points: 10967

    Most government jobs have published salaries.

    This is for Illinois teachers:

    http://www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_salaries.php

    I found a spreadsheet for the city of Pittsburgh at:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AgIDIpQ4B-u0C2RrnYFEgdnpJKlWH0qyBGkhRTiOK9A/edit?pli=1#gid=0

    412-977-3526 call/text

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