Recruitment question

  • mcmiller1986

    SSC Enthusiast

    Points: 176

    Thanks for fielding this question in advance:

    We are searching for a Microsoft SQL DBA in the NYC area... haven't had any luck sourcing candidates on all the normal job posting sites and LinkedIn.

    Any advice?

    technical recruiter, lurking on the forum to learn more about SQL DBAs

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 995649

    Yes... post a couple of links that point to your specific posts on the job posting sites and let us have a look.

    I can also tell you that, based on the incredible vagueness of your question, I'm thinking that you're setting up for someone you know (or even yourself with a different login) to answer this question which, of course, will contain SPAM about some "miracle" site that helps the problem.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • mcmiller1986

    SSC Enthusiast

    Points: 176

    Jeff,

    I was a bit vague because I didn't want to come across as spammy. I don't want abuse this forum with job postings, because I didn't see a jobs section.

    But for reference, here is an example of my job's post on ZipRecruiter: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/job/41f4747d

    I have similar posts on LinkedIn & Indeed.

    Basically, I hoping to find out if there are any job boards exclusively for Microsoft SQL DBAs or something close to that. Because standard job boards are not pulling the right people at all.

    Thank you for your response.

    technical recruiter, lurking on the forum to learn more about SQL DBAs

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 995649

    You say the "standard job boards are not pulling the right people at all".  What kind of people are you getting that are disappointing you?

    I can tell you that filling such a job (especially one with such wide requirements) is going to be difficult.  In the past, I've interviewed people applying for Sr. DBA, Sr. Database Developer, and Sr. WebDeveloper and (I stopped counting) but even with each claiming more than 10 years of experience, 20 out of 22 didn't even know how to get the current date and time with T-SQL and most of the DBAs didn't even know how to do a native backup and restore.   I even had one "expert" performance tuner tell me that he never used clustered indexes because he never worked on clustered servers before. <head-desk>

    So, don't be too disappointed in the types of people your ads are drawing.  Both aspects of the Kruger-Dunning effect are in full play in this business.  There are some great people out there but it's going to take a while to find one.  And, if you get someone who's really sharp in a couple of the more critical areas, consider them because they can learn the other stuff pretty quickly.

    You might also want to reconsider the salary range.  Having such a wide range on the salary might suggest to qualified candidates that there's going to be problems when it comes to pay or that you folks might not know what you actually want.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • mcmiller1986

    SSC Enthusiast

    Points: 176

    I'm an outside recruiter for this firm, so the salary expectations are not under my control. But I'll consider artificially truncating the range. I have the same instinct on this as you do.

    Regarding the type of candidates it's pulling... basically, the candidate needs to have background with making queries, drawing up reports... some BI experience along with DBA background is ideal. I'm finding people are really just not actual DBAs. They just took the MSCA exam and that's about it.

    For those matching the technical skill set, I'm finding that those candidates lack soft skills.

    If there are no jobs forums for DBAs, I guess I just need to try harder with the tools I have.

    Thanksagain.

    technical recruiter, lurking on the forum to learn more about SQL DBAs

  • Lynn Pettis

    SSC Guru

    Points: 442235

    I took the time to look at the posing on ZipRecruiter and to me it seems rather vague as to what you are looking for in a candidate.  I have over twenty years of experience working with SQL Server.  I have for much of that time considered myself a hybrid DBA having done both administrative and development work.  Early in my database career I worked with both SQL Server and Windows Server as I was the Windows Server administrators backup.  But that changed after a reorganization within that company.  I also haven't installed SQL Server since since 2010.  At one company SQL Server DBAs managed SQL Server and Database Engineers installed SQL Server.  At my current company the System Administrators have done the install and even set up the scheduled backups and restores.   I have taken care of ad hock backups and restores, especially while in Afghanistan when were would complete application upgrades of the software we supported for US and Coalition forces.

    At this time I am more of a database developer but still called into assist where a DBA would normally help.  I would be wondering if remote working would be available.  With today's technologies you really don't have to be able to touch the servers any more to complete 99+ % of your work.  It is possible that there are people out there that would be interested in the position just not interesting in moving or living in certain locations.  Sorry, but I really don't want to live in high tax states like California, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, or New Jersey (my dad always said New Jersey was a great place to be from, he had no desire to ever move back there).

    I know where my strengths are and I know were my weaknesses are.  MS SQL Server has become such a large product that it is almost impossible to be an expert in all aspects of the product.  For instance, I am highly experienced in developing and tuning database objects and queries, I have written moderately complex SSIS packages to move data between on premise to 3rd party systems.  I have no experience working with SSRS directly but have worked with SSRS report developers to create the queries that SSRS reports used for reporting.  I have implement Database mirroring but not clusters or Always On Availability Groups, and I have setup replication in a lab environment to test the feasibility for reporting purposes but never set it up in a production environment.  All that said, it doesn't mean I couldn't learn those parts of SQL Server.

    I would say your posting needs to be more specific on what your must haves and like to haves are for the position.  That would help someone like that could very well be in the market for new employment in the near future.  All depends on things that may occur with my current employer.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by  Lynn Pettis.
  • frederico_fonseca

    SSChampion

    Points: 14390

    please take this as a constructive comment.

    had a look at that particular offer - not quite just a DBA - and it mentions skill sets that most DBA's will not possess - or buzz words were added just because the technology is used with relations to SQL Server instances.

    Below are my comments regarding this - I do feel that the request is more for a DBA Jack of All Trades type of person than just a DBA

    So if the position is indeed for a DBA but with a desire that the individual may be able to do some of the others, put those as "nice to have" but expanding the meaning. For example "Use VMWare" - what would be the desirable "work" that the DBA could be asked to do here

    SQL DBA, Windows Servers, Sharepoint, VMware

    Use your experience to:

    Maintain and manage SQL database environment.

    ----> DBA

    aggregate data, manage it, organize it

    ----> >Data Analyst/Developer

    query the data and metadata

    ----> Data Analyst/Developer

    design and process scheduled reports ·

    ----> Data Analyst/Developer

    ----> although DBA setups the schedule it is the Developer/User that requests it

    ----> This excludes reports that the DBA may do for managing and reporting on the SQL Server instance health

    install, support operating systems, and sw patches and updates

    ----> This is a mix of DBA (for SQL Server Patching and Systems/Windows administrator

    ----> DBA does not need to know how/when to install and maintain the underlying OS

    design and implement an appropriate database back and recovery strategy

    ----> DBA

    properly design for replication, mirroring, log shipping and database clustering

    ----> DBA

    work with Microsoft related technologies, including Windows Server OS, Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, etc.

    ----> Too vague - specially on Exchange - why would a DBA need to know how to work/configure/troubleshoot Exchange or Sharepoint?

    use Active Directory and Group Policy

    ----> Active Directory - DBA needs to know how AD works for particular things (Groups, users, SPN's, Kerberos) - but Group Policy? never seen a DBA with the need to know these except possibly for defaulting at a GPO level some permissions that the user a SQL Instance runs under requires

    use VMWare

    ----> too vague - DBA needs to know how a VM should be configured so he/she can talk with the vmware team in order to get best performance out of the VM - but not more

    constantly seek to use your skills and these technologies to further the company goals

    SQL DBA, Windows Servers, Sharepoint, VMware

    Pluses

    Backup and Disaster Recovery experience.

    Datto appliances, Veeam

    E-Automate database experience

    SQL or Microsoft server certifications

  • mcmiller1986

    SSC Enthusiast

    Points: 176

    A lot of good responses. I really appreciate them all.

    technical recruiter, lurking on the forum to learn more about SQL DBAs

  • Grant Fritchey

    SSC Guru

    Points: 396288

    The bad news, finding a good dba is really hard. My last company went into a semi-permanent recruiting mode when it took us over a year to find a single qualified mid-range DBA. So, best of luck.

    A few suggestions. First, legwork may be required. Consider going to a SQLSaturday event in the area (not sure when the next one is in NYC or the region). If not that, go to the local PASS Chapter or Meetup for data professionals. Getting the word out where people go to network is much more likely to get you some qualified leads.

    Speaking of PASS, they have a jobs board that may be a little more specific for you. I'd suggest trying that.

    On a side note, if you or the person you're searching for don't have good knowledge and experience about the data platform, you may want to hire a consultant to do the interviews for you.

    Good luck. This is a tough job to place and from what I understand right now, a tough jobs market for hiring. Qualified people are in demand, even more than normal.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood...
    Theodore Roosevelt

    The Scary DBA
    Author of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd Edition
    Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • mcmiller1986

    SSC Enthusiast

    Points: 176

    Grant, yeah, that's what I'm finding. It's tough to find.

    I have experience recruiting standard IT support and infrastructure engineers (e.g., field engineers, systems and network engineers, CTOs, etc.) So, I'm familiar with the DBA role, but have never really dug into it enough to ask the right questions, although I feel I've done my homework.

    I'll check out that job forum. Thanks for that.

    technical recruiter, lurking on the forum to learn more about SQL DBAs

  • Grant Fritchey

    SSC Guru

    Points: 396288

    If you have specific questions, never hesitate. We try to be helpful here. If we can help someone get a job or an employer get a good DBA, all the better.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood...
    Theodore Roosevelt

    The Scary DBA
    Author of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd Edition
    Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Summer90

    SSC-Dedicated

    Points: 32826

    I am job looking as my position has been eliminated.  The biggest problem I have seen is the job listing does not accurately show what the DBA team really wants in a DBA.  The job description and the skills wanted really need to be spelled out very well so applicants know exactly what they hiring manager/dba team really want skills wise in the new hire.

     

    Examples:

    Job posting did not mention AlwaysOn knowledge needed, however they used it heavily and required the DBA to have experience in it.

    Job posting stating need knowledge in SQL Server 2003, 2005 an 2008... well there was no SQL Server 2003.

    Job posting did not stated Replication knowledge was needed, however it was.

    Also, be accurate in the number of years of being a DBA.  One place the job posting stated 3-5 years however, they actually wanted someone with 10+ years as they said in the interview.

  • Grant Fritchey

    SSC Guru

    Points: 396288

    Nature of the beast. You'll have to love when the DBA is expected to also be a master in 5 different programming languages, 6 different operating systems, relational data, non-relational data, analytics, BI, and four years of experience with SQL Server 2019.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood...
    Theodore Roosevelt

    The Scary DBA
    Author of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd Edition
    Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software

  • Jeff Moden

    SSC Guru

    Points: 995649

    My favorite IT related job posting of all time was also the shortest, most honest, and most accurate one I've ever seen...

    HELP WANTED

    "Basically, we want someone that can look at T-SQL, figure out what's wrong, and fix it."

     

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
    "If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."--Red Adair
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not."

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

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