July 14, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Outsourced = Laid Off?
July 15, 2011 at 3:13 am
It would be great to have all companies use resources from their own country to keep the money in their own economy. However, I always see it this way. What brand car did you buy? Was it an American vehicle? What about your refrigerator, where was that manufactured?
Services are just like the products we buy. You search for high quality at a low price. As for me, I don't look at where the products are manufactured before I buy them simply because I cannot always afford to buy from a local industry. Sure my company outsources to other companies but some of the jobs are also in America too. There's a big cost difference. Not only that, we have to pay our American people benefits where the contractors overseas get their benefits from the contracting firm (if any).
Profit is revenue minus costs. If you increase your costs, your profit goes down. The only way to keep it the same is to increase your revenue and that is passed on to the customer. You wouldn't want the prices of everything to increase would you?
July 15, 2011 at 3:35 am
Until it happens to you, one doesn't really understand these oft-repeated mantras:
• have a career rather than job
• always be learning and get official recognition for your knowledge & skills
• save for rainy days (and there *will* be rainy days).
Friends of mine also recommend publishing worthy articles and becoming heavily involved in industry discussion boards to build up a name and a reputation. They are both very worthy activities, but one needs the inclination and the time. If your company is not hot on you spending time helping other people with their problems, then it isn't easy.
July 15, 2011 at 6:13 am
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?
July 15, 2011 at 6:29 am
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?
We're here but don't want to get paid $10/hour so we aren't applying for your job. Offer us a high salary with good benefits and then you will get good candidates applying.
July 15, 2011 at 6:36 am
To me outsourced does = laid off. Basically, you are out of a job. As far as the reasons why and costs I have been amazed where it works on some projects and others it is a disaster. What I do find ironic (defined as irate + moronic = ironic) is when people are moved off shore there is suddenly a new group of expensive managers putting in processes to manage the group. Is this accounted in the big picture or is it just working numbers? Not being experienced enough in business management, I can't say.
I think the book "The World is Flat" sums it up when it asks you to ask yourself a question, "Is your job and skills fungible?" I know for me reviewing that question makes me keep learning more skills beyond technical and trying to keep the fun stuff (technical) up to date.
July 15, 2011 at 6:57 am
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.
July 15, 2011 at 7:19 am
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.
Depends. What city and state are you in? How many years of experience are you looking for? What certifications are required for the job ? Does this person manage anyone else? How much schooling is required (None, Bachelors, Masters, etc)?
Does the candidate just need MS SQL or My SQL, Oracle, and Teradata?
July 15, 2011 at 7:23 am
J Thaddeus Klopcic
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.
$50K is not much when most of the time it cost more than that to live.
July 15, 2011 at 7:56 am
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?
Why? The same reason 99% of offshore contractors aren't even good enough to be called dweebs.
Come on, your racial prejudice against whatever country you are in is unwarranted. Every country has good and bad. I have worked with programmers, project managers and all kinds of IT workers from over 50 countries! I have seen that quality is better the more time someone has spent in America. Born and raised here with a decent college, you are among the best. Those who were born elsewhere but came over prior to college are among the best. Those who were raised and educated elsewhere haven't genereally fit that category, although many have. Overall, I have seen more qualified Americans. Amazing that the country where I would see the highest number of people happen to have the most qualified, I know.
The main issue I see is that companies want to higher wage slaves and can't figure out why nobody wants to apply except idiots. Gee, maybe the smarter people know they can find a real job and aren't willing to accept something less. I know of a company that was trying to hire an engineer, and out of more than 500 applicants, everyone turned down the offer until they got to someone who was willing to work for about 60% of what the position should pay. A year later, with experience, they left.
If you aren't seeing qualified applicants, maybe you need to evaluate your company and not the people who apply.
Dave
July 15, 2011 at 7:58 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/14/2011)
Comments posted to this topic are about the item <A HREF="/articles/Editorial/74431/">Outsourced = Laid Off?</A>
I want to say that in this economy I think posting an oped about how those who are unemployed should change careers isn't a well thought out idea. Around 2000 there were a lot of IT staff out of work. Now there are a lot of every jobs out of work. While our so called government states unemployment is 9.2%, we all know it is far higher than that, probably closer to 20%. What career would we have them change to? Migrant farm worker?
Dave
July 15, 2011 at 9:05 am
Do outsourced workers not get treated as if they're made redundant over there in the states, they certainly do her in the UK. Why wouldn't they?
July 15, 2011 at 9:17 am
cengland0 (7/15/2011)
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.Depends. What city and state are you in? How many years of experience are you looking for? What certifications are required for the job ? Does this person manage anyone else? How much schooling is required (None, Bachelors, Masters, etc)?
Does the candidate just need MS SQL or My SQL, Oracle, and Teradata?
http://www.earthnetworks.com/AboutUs/Jobs/tabid/109/newsid540/192/Default.aspx
Honestly, I'm not sure what they are really willing to offer. This was just a guesstimate. However, I do know that the company is only making a certain number of sales in this economic climate, and the value-add for a new DBA is only a certain amount, so the company can only offer a limited amount in salary. Those are the bare facts. If you think you are worth more, start your own company.
July 15, 2011 at 9:36 am
cengland0 (7/15/2011)
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?We're here but don't want to get paid $10/hour so we aren't applying for your job. Offer us a high salary with good benefits and then you will get good candidates applying.
Amen!
Dave
July 15, 2011 at 9:38 am
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.
Um, no, not even close. The going average rate for developers is over $90,000, so you have provided evidence as to why you can't hire Americans and have to go looking for H1B visa workers (who are always paid less) or outsource.
Dave
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