June 4, 2025 at 12:00 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item IT Unionization
June 4, 2025 at 6:23 am
I've long thought that when workers feel the need to have/form a union, then you have appalling management. Elon Musk comes to mind here. This article in The Onion makes the point clearly: https://theonion.com/tesla-employees-scramble-to-make-office-look-like-theyve-been-sleeping-there/
If management organises the company so that the workers are respected, feel secure and receive a worthwhile income, then unions become an academic thema.
If the management in your company is fond of yearly culls, replacing as many of her employees with AI, ignoring the internal abuse (and I'm not just looking at the evil effects of bro-culture & racism) or even simply not paying her employees as much as she could (especially while the C-suite pocket many, many multiples of the median salary), then obviously workers look to unions.
Unions are about worker power and are/were indicative of a top-down, take-what-you-can style of management. The voluntary absence of unions (that is, they could be formed but nobody feels the need to do so or join them if they exist) is indicative that workers are valued in their place of employment aren't merely figures for senior executives to do with as they please.
June 4, 2025 at 8:38 am
Here in the UK there are already enough available unions that encompass IT workers and other managerial and professional services staff and over the years smaller unions have amalgamated into larger more powerful negotiating bodies.
My employer recognises and negotiates with three different unions representing a wide cross section of staff and it is personal choice whether or not to join one.
June 4, 2025 at 9:02 am
Do IT people have the mentality for union membership?
On average, how long do IT people stick with one employer? In the UK, demand for IT skills has always run ahead of supply, which is why salaries are so high. Historically, changing jobs has been relatively easy, especially in the larger cities. Why fight a battle for improved conditions when you can get another job with the conditions you desire?
In the tech world, change can be rapid, so the default is to run to keep up. I get the impression that the pace of change in IT is an outlier. Is this pace of change compatible with unionisation?
June 4, 2025 at 1:29 pm
I'm pretty sure every union on the planet would lose their minds over what my job entails. The number of weekends that just go away. Holidays I don't get. Crazy long hours, depending. All sorts of stuff like that. And you know what, I'm OK with it. If I wasn't, I'd say something. In fact, I love it. I'm having a blast. I'd hate for someone to come in and start saying how many trips to how many countries I can have because I'll be working more than the union allows, or I wouldn't be taking adequate time off, or whatever. No, no way.
Now, as to IT in general... There's a lot to it. How much of this would be employer specific (if a given company wants a union, they get one, but you don't have to have, or belong, to one)? How much is down to the individual? What if I don't want to join the union, for whatever reason, am I still required because I work for the company. Dues? All that stuff. I lean pretty hard away from a union, but I know that's speaking from a good position as far as employment goes. Would I feel the same after a few years at, say, the Wal Mart HQ in Arkansas? Maybe not.
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June 4, 2025 at 1:52 pm
Unions were incredibly important back before we had basic labor laws. Now we're too far in the other direction and many companies are hamstrung just trying to comply with overly rigid laws. So as far as labor unions go, I just don't see the point. As you pointed out, membership is usually mandatory. Additionally, many unions lobby on behalf of one political party meaning some of your dues are going there whether you want them to or not. Unions are an impediment to a thriving company.
Here in the US, we have so many employment opportunities. If you don't like anything about an employer - pay, culture, pressure, work/life balance, etc. - there are tons of opportunities to find something else. Unions served their purpose. They can be brought back if needed, but for now they should be retired.
Be still, and know that I am God - Psalm 46:10
June 4, 2025 at 6:25 pm
I would join a union. Things may be great now, but when you get new management things can change in an instant.
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June 5, 2025 at 12:55 pm
I understand unions for factory workers, teachers, and truck drivers.
But IT covers a very broad range of job descriptions - a lot of them distinct. What a DBA or software engineering role looks like at one organization can be very different from another organization, so it would be difficult to get everyone on the same page.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 5, 2025 at 2:11 pm
I could possibly get behind a more "Trade Union" sort of union for IT, think similar to what electrical workers have, something where if someone is a member an employer has a reasonable degree of certainty that they know what they're doing.
What I could not get behind is a "labor union" sort of union, such as the United Auto Workers sort of union. As Eric said, IT is far, far too broad to paint all IT work with the same brush. Further, considering (comparatively) how small the number of IT workers (and yes, I'm talking everyone from the rack-n-stack network and server people to the rockstar coders in that) compared to the total employees of a business, unionization doesn't make a lot of sense.
Considering some of the negatives Steve mentioned in the editorial, how much of that is the employer pushing, how much is it the employer dangling a carrot of "big bonus if we get this shipped on time," and how much is it our own fault for wanting to "just get this last bit done so it's done and I don't want to break my train of thought and try to pick this up tomorrow / when I get back from vacation?"
Then you have the times where production is down and it needs to be back up ASAP. Labor workers, if the line goes down, are not the ones responsible for fixing the line. Now, would having something in your contract / work agreement about "emergency call out rates" be nice? Sure (and have you ever seen what a plumber / electrician can charge for emergency calls? Wow...) but you'll also need to pin down with the employer just WHAT, EXACTLY qualifies as an "emergency," and what qualifies as a "yeah, that's nice, we'll get to it in the morning / on Monday" sort of events, because otherwise (bit cynical here,) nothing will ever be an "emergency," even if it's production down on a Saturday during payroll, but you'll be expected to drop everything and come fix it.
Of course, in that situation you could say "so it's not an emergency boss? Cool, I'll deal with it on Monday, I'm going fishing." See how fast it becomes an emergency.
I suppose all of that is a long way for me to say, no, I don't think IT workers should unionize, it just wouldn't be worth the cost (union dues, organizing, etc,) in the long or short run.
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