August 29, 2007 at 9:48 am
Sorry, I posted this last week in the Backups section and received no response. I thought I'd try here....
I have a rookie question: We use VERITAS as our backup system that is controlled by another department. We have no control over the backups and as such cannot perform restores and verifications. I have been trying to get a SQL backup server but that's another story. I am not very comfortable having another department doing the backups without any means of restoring or testing.
Aside from that, my question is: is the backup performed by VERITAS registered in SQL? I mean if a full backup then a log back is done and then I perform a shrinktable on the logs will they shrink down the same as if I did a SQL backup? There is no issue pending, this is just curiosity.
Also, aside from having no control over the backups, is there anything else I should be aware of regarding this setup? This is the first shop I have worked that is using VERITAS so I am not familiar this the product.
Thanks for your help and information.
August 29, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Charlie,
For Veritas to do the Database you will need the SQL plug in. It is an additional purchase item. The backup (veritas) will update the last backup information. Since this is a different department, you may want to schedule a (sql) job that does the backup (to disk) and have them create a (veritas) job to sweep up the backup file. Thus backing up the backup. This will ensure there is a copy on tape. They do not need to be DBAs to do this and thus your concerns are handled. I would suggest thay configure the job to mail you on complete or failure so you can verify that is was done as well as the time. Veritas has on open file option and the files would not do you any good if veritas couagt the file in the middle of a SQL backup.
PS. Whatever you do, dont forget the log files.
August 29, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Thanks Dave. We already have the .BCH files configured. I was just wondering about SQL being aware that a backup was taked since it did not perform it.
It is not an ideal situation when we can not verify them. I'm used to restoring the backups to a test server and know they work.
Thanks again for the response.
August 29, 2007 at 5:00 pm
VERITAS (and other backup utilities) still do a SQL Server backup “under the covers” with the backup output streamed to tape.
August 30, 2007 at 11:43 am
Which exact product are you using? Veritas Backup Exec? If so, Michael is correct. If you are taking some sort of disk image snapshot (which probably will be useless) then no it won't register with SQL Server.
August 31, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Bob - We're using Veritas Backup Exec. We have restored two databases, though very small, sucessfully. I believe that we must have the SQL programs since they have performed the backups.
This was just a general, want-to-know, question. I am pushing for a dedicated SQL backup server for more than nine months. Just have to keep pushing.
Thanks for responding.
September 4, 2007 at 6:33 am
Ok then yes, backup exec actually creates virtual tapes. Constructs SQL backup statements and runs the backups through SQL Server. So the history is tracked, however you still have to go through veritas to do the restore since these tapes really don't exist. Also, you will find if you look that Veritas (on windows) uses SQL server to maintain the backup database.
September 4, 2007 at 11:47 am
If you are using Veritas, Netbackup is the SQL piece to be able to do the database backups and restores. SQL server will know of the backups but you can not restore the tape backup through SQL Server. You raise a lot of questions since you said you were able to do two restores. How were these done? Another thing to be aware of, is if you are doing point in time recovery you must use care when using Veritas and if you were too do any type of SQL backups.
September 4, 2007 at 3:24 pm
mforbes - The restores were done by the other department. Again, I have no control over the backups and restores.
I believe that what you are saying is that for a point-in-time restore:
1. Veritas does a full backup
2. Veritas does a log backup
3. I perform a full backup through a SQL job
4. Veritas does another log backup - The Veritas backups are now out of sync until it does another full backup.
Is this correct?
Thanks for the reply
September 5, 2007 at 7:18 am
Yes that is correct. You also said about the other department does the restores brings up other issues like security. No one other then the DBA’s should be able to do the restores. I am assuming that group then has SA privileges as well which is a bad thing.
September 7, 2007 at 4:52 am
Or, horror of horrors, the team is re-imaging the entire server which would "convienently restore" SQL Server to the state everything was in at the time Veritas took its snapshot of the server.
Never having worked with Veritas (just heard about it), I'm unsure if SQL Server would still be able to function if the entire server OS, data files & all was restored like that. I know you can't just restore a Veritas image to another server and copy the .mdf & .ldf over because they would be corrupted. But that's a different scenario than the one I just outlined.
Anyone know the answer to the first sentence in my second paragraph? I'm interested to know.
And if SQL can work after that, then I would recommend contacting the other department and asking them to train you on how they are doing the restores. Tell them it's an FYI/CYA kind of training, so you know what's going on when you request restores from them.
September 7, 2007 at 5:40 am
Brandie I am not sure what your are saying. Veritas would not be able to restore data files because they can not just be backed up like a flat file unless the database were to be takin off line first.
September 7, 2007 at 5:44 am
mforbes, I know that. That was my second comment. My first comment or question is this:
Veritas can backup everything on the Server. So, it backs up the OS, the folder structure and every single file on the server. You can actually restore (I believe) the entire image or snapshot of the server from that backup should the server go down. Right? So, say SQL Server is installed on that server. Server goes down, Veritas is used to restore (or re-image) the server to what it looked like at the last server (not SQL) backup. OS is restored and everything.
Will SQL Server still work? Or are the data files corrupted at that point? Is there additional work that needs to be done to get SQL Server running other than making sure the services are still up?
September 7, 2007 at 6:07 am
Brandie there is two parts to Veritas. The first is backup exec which backs up the OS and files and folders. The mdf and ldf are excluded from these backups since they are live files. You need to use the Netbackup piece for SQL to back up the database files. So if you were to restore the image the database files would not be included with this restore unless they take the databases down all the time to backup the mdf and ldf files through Backup Exec. Plus by backing up the ldf files through Backup Exec you would not have point in time recovery.
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