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How To Mess Up An Interview

  • October 17, 2005 at 3:26 pm

    #597778

    I expect more from this website.

    This is a relatively useless article and deserves to be pulled. The author makes three points:

    1. Practice

    2. Don't mention God

    3. Curse

    Only the first point will actually help people, the rest is a fluffy waste of time and frequently offensive.

    Also:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#.22Gay.22_as_a_pejorative

    Steve - don't you have style guidelines that discuss the use of gender pronouns and pejoratives? If not, do it. Now. And edit or pull this article.

  • October 17, 2005 at 3:32 pm

    #597779

    this is g'hey... lets move on....

  • October 17, 2005 at 3:38 pm

    #597780

    Hahahahaaa,

    I am not lawfully qualified to advise a lawsuit, but I would think some of the gay candidates that Sean interviewed have some basis for a fat-ass discrimination lawsuit here... A written, published article that his hiring decisions are based on "how gay" the the candidates are )

    But on the other hand, I think he is a smart guy that even uses cr.... to draw attention... So using a "this is gay" phrase would not slip out of his pen (or keyboard) in a published article. He even makes his spouse to read it before it is published.

    So my question is WHY? Why would he do that?

    To draw more attention?

    To end up with a busy "comments" section?

    To take revenge from the company he works with by causing them discrimination lawsuits?

    To become "famous" ? )

    Maybe I am a "C" type that thinks about how the flies land on the ceiling? But I cannot stop wondering

    And my own opinion about the subject of the article:

    I think it is quite important to have the interviewers share their mindsets, and write them, and even publish them as articles.  I do applaud this magazine for doing that.

    And I take this as a great example of how hiring process works, and how important is to have a qualified interviewer for a company, and a solid proof of this being a prerequisite of "looking for candidates" phase...

    Basically if the interviewer is not competent, as a company you are out of luck to hire the right person.

    Thank you

  • October 17, 2005 at 3:48 pm

    #597781

    "Cuss if the interviewer cusses" is just a small step away from "Lie if your Interviewer (and possible colleague in the future) lies" and later "Twist the books if your boss asks you to"......

    There are some moral absolutes that *have* to remain moral absolutes. Otherwise, all of us could end up in the slippery path to places like Enron. The writer seems to promote an idea that it is Okay to bend in/give in...

    The writer has forgotten that these articles are read by people who may not know of the same, very localized context, let alone people from all around the world where these terms/situations will never be understood. The points could have been made using humor that is understood by all.

    John

  • October 17, 2005 at 3:59 pm

    #597783

    For starters... wow... lawsuits huh... man, you guys really take yourselves seriously... never once did i make any reference to hot hiring homosexuals... i can still say that, right... it's not traditionally challenged, or some kind of engineer now is it...

    2ndly... if all you got out of the piece was curse and god sucks, then you're just not reading the piece. 

    and there's no such thing as humor that's understood by all...

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  • October 17, 2005 at 4:08 pm

    #597784

    Sean,

    Good article, don't let the naysayers dissuade you from writing again.  The religious zealots that have been responding are just making your point for you. 

    Religious Zealots,

    I think Scott Adams said it best when he said "Jeepers Cripes, I hope the Almighty Gosh doesn't darn me to Heck".  The scathing diatribes you have unleashed on Sean in defense of your Vengeful God are painting a very dark view of Christianity.  You are not letting your little light shine for the glory of God, you are just polarizing people against Him.

    When you witness for God in the application design meeting, you are taking the meeting off track, unless you work for Focus on the Family or some other equally religion-based company.  There is a place for witnessing, and it is rarely in a code review (Focus employees excepted). 

    Gay Rights Activists and less active Gay people,

    Sorry if you were offended.  We breeders all thought you had gone back to using "queer" as your Label of Choice Du Jour.  We'll go back to saying "that sucks".  We know your sexual preference does not preclude you from being a good DBA.  No offense intended.

    Everyone Else,

    As an author, I want people to talk about my written word, whether it's because they agree or disagree.  If you hate what I said, convince me your way is right.  Sometimes I'll change my mind if your argument is more valid than my original way of thinking.  But don't just scream at me that I'm wrong without facts or ideas to back it up, because then you're just a horrid little pez dispenser clicking out crappy-tasting candy (that's right, I went there).

    Jeff

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:20 pm

    #597785

    Jeff,

    When you insult someone instead of articulating logical support for your assertion (as you did with your "religious zealots" salutation), it's called an ad hominem (been around since the ancient greeks, still doesn't work).

    Of all the falacies that I studied in college, ad hominems bore me the most.

    Sean is a great writer and I enjoy his stuff a lot.  I encourage him to keep writing and SQLServerCentral.com to continue publishing his work.

    I'm just trying to "keep it real" by letting him and his publisher know that when my worldview is invalidated by calling it "crap" - it offends me.  That's all.  You know, some of SQLServerCentral.com's advertisers may be what you would describe as "religious zealots" too.  They might be reading this...

    Chuck Boyce

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:22 pm

    #597786

    Sean,

    Once Again!

    • When you write something to be posted on the internet you need to have boundaries.
    • When you do it on a SQL Server site, it better has something to do with it
    • When you want to offend other people either keep it to yourself or say it in Person!!

    I would be really pleased if your next "article" has something to offer

     


    * Noel

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:28 pm

    #597789

    Yet another classic, glad to know you can insult yourself so well. I guess after that you can say anything you want and the world will understand.

    Wow.

    BTW, weren't most (not all) of those Christian posts by relatively new members?



    Everett Wilson
    ewilson10@yahoo.com

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:28 pm

    #597788

    Chuck,

    I wasn't making an ad hominem attack, I was addressing the people who were being religious zealots, hoping I could get them to see that they're not helping their argument.

    But, I see your point.  Thanks for reminding me to not identify all people of faith as zealots.  Anyone can be a zealot, regardless of the stand they're making.  And sometimes, in my zeal to stop them, I become that which I dislike.

    Jeff

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:36 pm

    #597790

    I never thought I'd see the day when I'd post 3x on a tech site to discuss what is/is not politically correct:

    Sean went over the top--should he be stoned? Let's give him a pass.

    Let it serve as a reminder that there are such things as public language and sensibilities among strangers, and that which is shared among close friends or trusted associates. And that there are regional differences regarding what's acceptable and what's not.

    Moreover, my innocent stream-of-consciousness musings and wit may be your religious/gender preference/racial/ethnic slur, and vigilance over one's own prejudices and preconceptions is called for. Such are the times we live in, and that's probably a good thing. It just might be an indicator of growth in a society that all-too-often does in fact ride roughshod over those who don't fit the mainstream profile (need I say more?)


    Arlan W. Dean

  • October 17, 2005 at 4:57 pm

    #597796

    Wow - someone has a problem. I think it's the author.

    Thing 1: Of course you should keep religion out of an interview. Is this something so prevalent that you need to spend so much bandwidth on it? Do you honestly think the people who do that read your articles? But it sounds like you have some vendetta against Christianity. Keep your opinions to yourself, and don't hire people who have faith, if that's your thing.

    Thing 2: Language. What kind of a moron needs to curse, especially in an interview? If an interviewer curses in the interview, he/she will curse at you at work. That kind of childish behavior should be left for the high-school dropout crowd; if the interviewer curses leave the interview and go work somewhere professional.

    Thing 3: Here's a better outline for you to re-write your article:

    Be professional - dress, speech, etc.

    Find out about the company.

    Study your craft.

    Be honest. If you don't know, say, "I don't know, but I can find out quickly." And then prove it.

    Focus on what you can do to help what they need.

     

     


    Buck Woody
    MCDBA, MCSE, Novell and Sun Certified

  • October 17, 2005 at 5:00 pm

    #597797

    Hmmm - yeah amazing what a response this has generated.

    The article was damn funny and was the perfect thing for me to read at the end of a long busy day yesterday.  Yes, maybe it was a bit out of bounds, but it was clear that its purpose was to be humerous.

    As for those who say that it had no information, it was the first in a "series" (Sean, you should try to get 15 pages of posts for the next article) - rest of the info is to come in the later articles I imagine.

    The cursing stuff was reasonably appropriate.  For those who want to take the high ground even when the interviewer swears a bit, well put it this way - if the culture of the workplace there is to swear a little and you're against that then

    a) Will you fit in?

    b) You probably won't get hired because they may see that you won't fit in, even if you could put up wtih it.

    And yes, for similar reasons, religion shouldn't be brought up - it's got nothing to do with your skill set as a DBA, so why mention it in an interview?  I suppose saying "God bless you" is saying that you are a member of "the club" - if the interviewer is also a member then maybe you're in, despite having/not having skills.  I've been in situations where I've been told I'm going to hell because I haven't bothered going to church in years - I am always amused by these things - I had always thought judging others was reserved to the big guy himself?

    I can see how Sean spent a bit of time on it in the article - it's an easy target for comedy, and can be annoying/insulting when you are being looked down upon for not carrying "the card".

    And yes, we don't always have SQL only topics on this site - we've had things about interviews, etc before - "professional" topics in that they are not related to SQL per se, but are related to being a professional.

    Look forward to the next article - perhaps a disclaimer of sorts at the beginning might reduce the flames and ensure those who read it can see the funny side and not be offended and see that offense is not intended.

    Cheers!  

  • October 17, 2005 at 5:11 pm

    #597798

    I agree with Clinton - should have called it 'How to mess up an Article'.  The whole subject of blessing and cursing is irrelevant - don't do it!  We are supposed to be professionals whether on the job or at the interview.  I too thought the article was a joke.  I got as far as the third line reading '... you're...' instead of '...your...', and thought, "Well at least I would have a good laugh receiving a dear John from this guy.  Can't wait to avoid the next in the series.

    Best Regards
    Terry

  • October 17, 2005 at 5:18 pm

    #597801

    Although I find your information true to life, I must disagree on the cursing issue. In professional life, it is never acceptable to curse, nor should it be promoted. It is just not needed to get a point across. Use proper English with appropriate phrasing and you will offend no-one. Who are you trying to impress in the job interview with the lack of common courtesy? As an interviewer, I find cursing distracting, unprofessional and a waste of my time. That alone will lower my rating of otherwise equal candidates. We are always looking for something to help us make a decision and this one is paramount in my interview process. Overall the interviewee should know the following

     

    1, Give succinct answers

              When asked what "raid" is, answer the question with “Redundant Array of inexpensive disks” or the prevailing variation of the acronym depending on location. Wait for further questions on the subject before going into detail.

     

    2, Don’t fudge on the technical knowledge, especially on your resume.

    If I find something on a resume that we are looking for, I will dig in with advanced questions. Even if we are not looking for it, I will dig into subjects that are on the resume. I am looking specifically for the resume bloat and quite frankly, I see it on at least 90% of the resumes that cross my desk. I must stress that for every open position, you are going up against other qualified candidates across the globe and we are looking for ways to make the decision easier for us on the hiring side.

     

    3, Above all, don’t waste the time of the interviewer!

              Again, don’t go off the subject when in the interview, if asked what an index is, don’t go on and on about how to use one, tell me what it is.

     

    I set the ground rules at the beginning of the interview; keep answers short, tell me up front if you don’t know the answer.

     

    I find time and again that the interviewee does not listen. If they don’t understand my instructions, how are they going to react to production pressures?

     

    Regards

    Kevin Wagner

    Regards,

    Kevin Wagner
    winsit.com

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