April 11, 2008 at 9:03 am
I agree with Andy D, it's really not the prospective employer's business. If you have good references, are willing to work for the salary presented, what difference does it make. Usually the reason you're leaving your current position is part of the interview process, so they have their answer.
I'd like to see a survey from employers showing whether an employee's previous salary history had any impact on how long they stayed and/or how well they did the job.
Good topic.
April 11, 2008 at 9:09 am
No way! A resume is designed to get you the interview, nothing more or less.
April 11, 2008 at 9:10 am
I too, do not include salary. During the hiring process my current job called me and told me that my application was incomplete because I left those sections blank. I asked them what my previous salary history had to do with their current position and they could not give me a good answer. I have since learned that they use a computer program to calculate offerings and previous salary provides a starting point for the calculations. In this case I told them that total compensation was a more accurate comparison because of differences between states and economic conditions. HR seemed confused at that point and explained that they just needed a history so I gave them an adjusted salary history with total compensation figures. I got the job.
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"No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious." - George Bernard Shaw
April 11, 2008 at 9:14 am
Being a bit of a thorny sort, I happen to think that my salary is no one's business but my own. (However, I work for the state, so I have to reveal it as long as I stay within the state.)
My salary expectations are an employer's business. I like the idea that someone posted of giving a range with what you expect at the bottom. That's a good one. I'm going to use it. Thanks.:D
April 11, 2008 at 9:15 am
No, I do not and I counsel others to do the same. This speaks volumes not only as to the culture of the company but how they view the particular position. Our industry has been commoditized and you'd be wise to open your eyes to it.
Also, refusing to provide it can occassionally help to differentiate yourself from the masses. On the off chance that the hiring person is looking for someone a cut above, that is.
April 11, 2008 at 9:20 am
I never volunteer salary history as salary is only one aspect of total compensation ... not to mention that the responsibilities may be somewhat different from those of the open position. I usually write "negotiable" whenever "Desired Salary" is on an application.
Over my past few interviewing experiences I've successfully avoided divulging this information by explaining that my previous responsibilities and experiences have better prepared me for future endeavors and that we should consider only the current market and the skill set that I can bring to the current opportunity. Depending on where the interview process is at (i.e. beginning, middle or end) determines whether or not we discuss total compensation. If at the beginning I always try to delay it by asking question about the responsibilities of the position and what's expected of the candidate to be successful. If we make it to a second or third interview and compensation comes up, I ask openended questions about the package (i.e. benefits, vacation time, holidays, bonuses, salary range, etc) being offered. If pressed to give a number, I always provide a range (usually close to what's offered or what the market allows if I'm unaware of what the company is considering). This is done only after I'm sure that the company is a good fit for me and the company thinks I'm a good fit for them.
April 11, 2008 at 9:28 am
Since I have not put out a serious resume for almost 20 years I probably do not count. However, if I were to I would not include any reference to current or previous pay. If it were required up front I would not submit for a job.
What I get paid is a negotiation after I decide if they would want me and I would want what they offer. Secondly I do not feel that it is really appropriate to discuss what I might cost the company before they know what value my skills and experience could bring.
And lastly, I agree with others that pay here is different then pay there. It would all have to be worked out after a decision was made as to if they needed me and I felt that it would be a workable job.
Not high handed, just the way it is.
Have a great 5 smile weekend. :):):):):)
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
April 11, 2008 at 9:43 am
I've been in IT 25 years, starting out as a programmer. After a couple years, when I was looking for my next job, I read a book that wisely counseled, among other things, never to give your salary history. Companies, the book pointed out, weed out candidates (that might otherwise be highly qualified and an excellent job fit) based on salary - recent or otherwise - that didn't match the formulas they had for a normal progression of duties/responsibilities. So ~ if you made too much, they wouldn't be interested in you because they might think, this person is going to want more than we have budgeted for this position when we negotiate starting salary, or, this person isn't going to stick around long because they are obviously just going to stay at this job a short time until they find a more suitably paying job. If you made too little, they wouldn't be interested because you obviously don't have the maturity and skills to handle the job we are considering offering you, or, you haven't gotten the salary raises we would expect, so you probably aren't a very good employee.
And when I encounter a company that demands a salary history during the online application process, I seriously consider not even proceeding...
April 11, 2008 at 10:00 am
maloneyk (4/11/2008)
No, I have never and would never include or offer a salary history. It's really none of any prospective employer's business.What IS important is your ability to demonstrate compentency in the job for which you are applying, and your prospective employer's ability to quantify it.
A perspective employer could argue that a history of increasing salaries is a measure of competency. If you were doing the hiring and saw someone had remained at the same salary for the last ten years, wouldn't that be a big red flag that they might be an under-performer? As a perspective employee, you would have to be prepared to offer some other tangible measure of demonstrated competency.
Employers do not want to overcompensate when they don't have to either. If they can pay you $80k for a job they are willing to pay up to $100k for, you lose out because that extra $20k goes into their pockets, not yours. The first party to put a number on the table loses the negotiation. If you are pressed for a salary, as many previous posters have suggested, ask what range the job pays. If you still feel you are being pressed, you can offer a range you are willing to work for.
Word to the wise - don't assume you know your applicants' motivations. As was stated, some are intentionally looking for normal hours and understand this comes with less pay, so don't overlook them.
I have been thrown out of an interview process before for making too much money. I would have gladly traded a significant amount of salary for better health insurance but was never given the chance.
April 11, 2008 at 10:26 am
I would add that the first number you mention will be your highest number, everything after that is down hill. So if in ur mind u r glad with anything between 75-80 say 80 because thats the highest u'll negotiate on. mentioning a range would be useful only if u say "somewhere between 75-80 depending on other benefits and other considerations...", .
i don't want to divert the subject, but wouldn't it make a difference if a company pays overtime? rather than just expecting you to stay more than you should for free. then you might accept a lower sallary
April 11, 2008 at 10:29 am
I never reveal my salary history in the initial interviewing process, or application process. It seems to hurt me more then help. I usually said let's wait to see if we could work together before we talked about salary requirement.
Most of the time, I will do my home work to find out their range before agreeing to the interview. I sometimes take the interview anyway because it is fun to meet other people who do my type of work 🙂
It is fun and rewarding because I would meet all kind of people whom I used compete against the last job, or took over my job, or took the job that I didn't want to take for whatever reason. SQL DBAs is a very small community. I often found myself hanging out with Oracle DBAs.
I have a hiring manager who called me and she was looking for xy and z and I said I can do x and y really well but I haven't done any z... and then she said that's ok, we can learn together. So I told her that based on the location of where the company is located, I would like not to further pursue this process. We agreed to keep in touch with each other as friends.
Most interviw are looking for:
Can you do the job?
Will you do the job?
Will you fit their culture?
April 11, 2008 at 12:21 pm
As many others have stated, I agree that it's a bad idea to provide a salary history. And, in over 24 years in the industry, I can't remember ever having had to provide one although I've seen many ads that requested one.
April 11, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I never volunteered my salary history, but I've almost always been asked to complete an employment application form at some point during the process which includes blanks for both work and salary history. I always assumed (and never heard otherwise) that leaving the salary history blanks on the application form is likely to hurt my chances of getting a job offer.
I have a question for Steve and others?
1. Did I assume wrong in the scenario above? (For the reasons discussed above, I'd also prefer to allow my salary history to remain confidential so that any offer is based on market value rather than salary history.) If so, is there an effective and proven way to explain leaving those blanks empty.
2. Does anybody have a rule-of-thumb about how frequently and how many times we can change employers before we're labeled a job-hopper and actually hurt our chances of finding other work later? (I'm not asking about contract jobs here.) Four employers in four years, as Steve described, seems as though might be a lot from a potential employer's point-of-view. More power to Steve for succeeding with that approach, but is he the exception or his approach generally effective for everyone?
Thanks in advance for any feedback on these questions...
April 11, 2008 at 1:33 pm
The only reasons for them to ask your salary history are reasons that are not in your interest. They might want to low-ball your salary offer. They might decide not to interview you based on your salary history.
April 11, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Regarding job-hopping, that's easily explained in today's business world: downsizing. At least, here in the NJ/NYC area it's common as we're all following the YoYo American Business Model. You can also say it was a one-year contract or right-to-hire position that lost its funding. At medium to large companies, you can claim a reorganization caused your position to be turned into something so completely dead-end. Or mind-numbingly boring. You say that you're very serious about your career and so on. But you never willingly admit to jobhopping if the person point-blank asks you a question about it. Once you've explained away the first 2, they'll typically stop. Fact is, you wouldn't have to job hop if they'd pay you based on the service you're providing and not your age.
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