March 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Good day everyone!
Well I’m somewhat new to the forums and SQL Server in general and felt I should introduce myself.
A little about me.I’ve played a little with the free versions of SQL Server but nothing of any depth. I’m somewhat familiar with the lingo used and know a little SQL. In other words I’m as green as green can be! 😀 I live in Colorado but work in Nebraska, I administer our instances of HP Quality Center, Serena Business Mashups, Enterprise Architect and a couple of others that are pretty low use and well behaved so I rarely hear from them. My primary focus is systems and application administration/support and some programming which is mostly VBS and Powershell.
So why am I here?I’m the application admin for a few of our programs at work and recently I was discussing the upgrades we have coming with my supervisor and he mentioned that we should take over the administration of our databases ourselves (long story) and move off Oracle. I was all up for this concept until he said I could do it. :blink: (Insert panicked laughter here) Well all joking aside, I am up for the challenge but I do have some questions and am unsure about some things which as I encounter them I’ll probably be searching the forums or posting questions.
Right now I would like to get some of your thoughts on good resources (Like books, websites, ect.) to start with regarding SQL Server and SQL in general. Since I’m a little more familiar with Oracle, one of my first questions is regarding the difference between PLSQL and the SQL that Microsoft uses; Like Oracle, does Microsoft have a particular “flavor” of SQL or does it matter? :ermm:
Anyway, I look forward to discussing SQL Server and more in the future and getting to know everyone.
March 29, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Certainly one of the best resources is right here at SQLServerCentral.
MS uses TSQL. There are some differences between PL/SQL and TSQL, but a good foundation in SQL will help you get past that.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 29, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Your two best resouces for learning SQL Server will be this site, and MSDN (or you can use Books Online, they usually have the same data).
Welcome to the site!
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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March 29, 2011 at 3:04 pm
First: Welcome.
steven.hulse (3/29/2011)
I’ve played a little with the free versions of SQL Server but nothing of any depth. I’m somewhat familiar with the lingo used and know a little SQL. In other words I’m as green as green can be! 😀
Worse things have happened then to know that you don't know. No harm there.
Well all joking aside, I am up for the challenge but I do have some questions and am unsure about some things which as I encounter them I’ll probably be searching the forums or posting questions.
A couple of things here. First, make sure you've got a sandbox database. Build it out with random trash data that you can do anything you need to with. The purpose of this is twofold. One, it will give you a place to use and abuse data with absolutely no fear of what else you might do even with a copy of another application's data. You're in full control of all the moving parts. Two, it will allow you to be able to build out and run samples from here in a safe environment as you ask questions. Eventually you won't need this but it's best to start with something that you know doesn't have hidden triggers, CLR function calls, whatnot randomly hiding and you can't see it.
Right now I would like to get some of your thoughts on good resources (Like books, websites, ect.) to start with regarding SQL Server and SQL in general. Since I’m a little more familiar with Oracle, one of my first questions is regarding the difference between PLSQL and the SQL that Microsoft uses; Like Oracle, does Microsoft have a particular “flavor” of SQL or does it matter? :ermm:
Yes, it does. It's call T-SQL. It will matter, as most of your more advanced or optimization techniques will make use of it. It's mostly ANSI standard with a few tweaks and then a bunch of add ons. You will NOT be able to port anything but the simplest of queries however between oracle and SQL unless they were designed with that in mind. Little syntax tweaks will choke it up.
For books, there's a number of them out there, but you probably want to decide where you want to start first. There's two generic places to start from your description, the administrative or the development side. I would normally recommend that you start at the development level and work up to the administrative level, as it will help make more sense (to most folks). You might look into Itzik Ben-Gan's T-SQL coding in SQL 2008 (or something very close to that) as a starter book for learning to use MS SQL. It's rather comprehensive and a bit of a dry read (a bit as in saharan desert a bit), but very good and a worthwhile desk weight.
For other resources, I'd probably look at google and poke around for things like introduction to T-SQL or MS SQL Administration type things. They're usually 20-30 page webdocs/links that you can browse through and pick up any low level basics you might need.
Finally, ask here if you have any specific questions. We're usually a helpful bunch.
Anyway, I look forward to discussing SQL Server and more in the future and getting to know everyone.
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March 29, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Welcome!
I learned a ton from this site regarding writing SQL:
http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp
Make sure to bookmark Books Online (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms130214.aspx).
And yes, as already been stated, get an instance up and running, get some data in it and fix/break, implement/remove, learn and relearn. In my humble opinion, it's all about experience and repetition.
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March 29, 2011 at 3:36 pm
steven.hulse (3/29/2011)
...and move off Oracle.
You had me right there. 😀
If you can afford it, get on Amazon.com (or any of another dozen places) and buy a copy of "SQL Server Developers Edition" for your personal use (think "experiments", "what ifs", and lot's of personal study of all types). It only costs something like $50 and is the same as the Enterprise Edition except for two things:
1. It runs on just about any desktop (XP, Vista, Windows 7) and does NOT require a copy of any version of Windows Server.
2. It is licensed for development purposes only. Don't even think of using it on a production server.
In fact, since your company is throwing you into all of this, they should allow you to "expense" it.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 29, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Here is a list of good resources from Amazon as well.
http://www.amazon.com/lm/R3RB13PQ7D8TKB
Edit - added the list
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 29, 2011 at 3:40 pm
SQLDCH (3/29/2011)
Welcome!I learned a ton from this site regarding writing SQL:
http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp
Make sure to bookmark Books Online (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms130214.aspx).
And yes, as already been stated, get an instance up and running, get some data in it and fix/break, implement/remove, learn and relearn. In my humble opinion, it's all about experience and repetition.
Agreed. W3Schools is fantastic. Just remember that it's NOT the T-SQL you'll run into in SQL Server. IIRC, W3Schools is ANSI SQL and won't help for things like joined UPDATEs or DELETES (both have 2 FROM clauses in T-SQL) but it's a fantastic place to begin learning SQL especially since they have an area that you can try/modify some of their examples without a personal copy of SQL of any type.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 29, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Thanks for the warm welcome guys! Even though i'm a little aprehensive about taking on this challenge, I am looking forward to it. I strangely found when working with the Oracle stuff that I kind of liked it so this opportunity is exciting.
I think the biggest concern I have is the migration from Oracle to SQL Server.
March 29, 2011 at 4:03 pm
steven.hulse (3/29/2011)
Thanks for the warm welcome guys! Even though i'm a little aprehensive about taking on this challenge, I am looking forward to it. I strangely found when working with the Oracle stuff that I kind of liked it so this opportunity is exciting.I think the biggest concern I have is the migration from Oracle to SQL Server.
WELCOME!
And you are right to be concerned. As mentioned, unless the PL-SQL code is pure ANSI (doubtful, but possible), it probably won't run in SQL Server. And even if the O stuff is in pure ANSI, it also depends on SQL Server having adopted it also - the two products are not in sync with each other when dealing with the implementation of the ANSI SQL stuff.
You will probably have to deal with differing data types. You might want to look at the SQL Server Migration Assistant for Oracle tool from Microsoft to help in all of this.
P.S. As you re-write the PL-SQL code... if you find yourself using the "WHILE" keyword, please come back here for help in creating a proper set-based solution.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 29, 2011 at 4:04 pm
steven.hulse (3/29/2011)
Thanks for the warm welcome guys! Even though i'm a little aprehensive about taking on this challenge, I am looking forward to it. I strangely found when working with the Oracle stuff that I kind of liked it so this opportunity is exciting.I think the biggest concern I have is the migration from Oracle to SQL Server.
You're welcome.
As for the migration, as with the development of an app, test it out several times. Do several dry runs. Perform the migration in dev, qa, beta, etc and do it again and again. While doing it - document. This will probably take quite a while to do and be upfront about the magnitude of the project.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 29, 2011 at 4:54 pm
steven.hulse (3/29/2011)
Thanks for the warm welcome guys! Even though i'm a little aprehensive about taking on this challenge, I am looking forward to it. I strangely found when working with the Oracle stuff that I kind of liked it so this opportunity is exciting.I think the biggest concern I have is the migration from Oracle to SQL Server.
You'll find that the migration of tables and data won't be that difficult. What will be difficult is the paradigm shift between Oracle and SQL Server and the thought changes you'll need to make when migrating stored procedures and the like. Oracle is "single row" processing friendly (most of us refer to that as "RBAR" or "Row By Agonizing Row"). Even triggers in Oracle requireds "FOR EACH ROW" (and the trigger code is written to process one row at a time) whereas ALL impacted rows are handled in a "set-based" fashion in SQL Server.
The easiest way to understand the paradigm shift is just like it says in my signature line below... [font="Arial Black"]Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.[/font]
If you can make that simple change in thinking, you'll do very, very well with SQL Server.
And, make no doubt about it... some of the best DBA's I know of, whether they be Oracle DBA's or SQL Server DBA's, are also heavy duty SQL Developers, as well.
Give us a hoot when you get either a copy of your own Developer's Edition or you have SQL Server installed at work. There's some really good information in "Books Online" (the help system that comes with SQL Server). You can also download "Books Online" for free from the MS site if you want to get a leg up on reading.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 30, 2011 at 12:01 am
I also want to welcome you to SSC and MS SQL Server.
Moving from Oracle to SQL Server will require some changes in thought processes, but in general the concepts will be somewhat similar. I have made the move the other direction. After 13+ years working with SQL Server I am now working as a database developer using Oracle. Many of the concepts I have used in SQL Server as a DBA/Developer are helping me in Oracle. The biggest difference you will run into is the syntax changes.
The more I work with Oracle, the more I want to come back to SQL Server. I think you will find some of things you will do in SQL Server actually make a little more sense than the way it is done in Oracle. As Jeff said, start working on thinking in a set based manner.
Also, keep BOL (Books Online available, it should become your best friend, but don't be afraid to ask questions, as it isn't always easy to find the answers you are looking for in BOL until you get used to searching the index for what you need.
Also, please take the time to read the first two articles I reference below in my signature block regarding asking for help and help with performance problems. These articles will help you with what you will need to post when asking questions here on the forums. Each article covers a different set of questions.
Lastly, look at the questions that are posted here on SSC. Work through them in a sandbox database yourself, then start looking at the solutions that are posted and work through those as well. Ask questions where you aren't sure what is being done. We are here to help you learn and become a better DBA and/or Database Developer.
Again, welcome to SSC and MS SQL Server!
March 30, 2011 at 5:51 am
Welcome!
Remember, keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times.
I think Jason's list over on Amazon covers most of the basics. The one thing I would add is to get a copy of Brad McGehee's "How to be an Exceptional DBA[/url]" or Tom LaRock's "DBA Survivor." They don't have as much technical stuff in them, but they cover the job really well.
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July 6, 2011 at 1:02 pm
Hi everyone,
Thought I'd pass along an update. Well it doesn't look like the migration to SQL Server is going to happen. (Well, at least for the time bieng.) To me this was some relief as It now gives me some time to properly prepare myself for when it actually does happen.
So what I've done in the mean time was, I was able to get my hands on a decommisioned Dell PowerEdge 2500 server, installed 4GB of RAM, set up Windows Server 2003 and start setting up the 3 36GB drives and the two 136GB drives.
This is my home set up so I decided to try my hand at hosting my own personal website and incorporate the SQL Server Express (2008) edition. I figured if anything goes belly up there's no one to blame but myself or affect several users other than me and anyone who visits my site.
I figure this would be a perfect scenario for me to learn the basics and give me free range to "experiment" with more advanced stuff as I grow. I'm also using Microsofts WebMatrix to set up Joomla, WordPress and a wiki. I figure that will be good to start getting some data in there and learn about setting up databases.
I've also been making my list of the suggested resources/books that has been mentioned but haven't picked any up yet, my boss (a.k.a. the wife) has been keeping me busy over the summer with lots of projects so I haven't had much time to devote to it.
Anyway I wanted to at least give you guys an update since you all have been so very helpfull. Once I start diving into it, I'm sure the questions will start flowing!
Steve
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