Gratitude

  • Erin Stellato

    Ten Centuries

    Points: 1176

    Comments posted to this topic are about the item Gratitude

  • Gary Varga

    SSC Guru

    Points: 82166

    I have a son and a daughter both of whom look unlikely to go into IT. It is not because they have a negative view of it but because they have a more positive view of themselves in other types of work. That suits me as if they ever fall into IT (which appears to be quite common) then I would be happy to encourage and advise either of them that for many it is the right choice.

    As for the "jerks" referred to by Erin, I try and call them out when they appear on the rare occasions that they do. I tend to find that the IT crowd are a very egalitarious bunch although often with a puerile sense of humour (almost as though we have an attitude that we can joke about it because none of us believe it). Obviously, as always, context and individuals need to be taken into consideration.

    Gaz

    -- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!

  • GeorgeCopeland

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 6885

    Great article Erin, thanks. Experiencing the emotion of gratefulness is about as good as it gets. I try to spend as much time in this emotion as I can.

    Our jobs can be done by a brain in a box. Personal characteristics mean nothing to our performance. I think that most IT professionals know this fact very well.

  • Eric M Russell

    SSC Guru

    Points: 125020

    I believe that in the IT world, and this probably goes as well for most any peer oriented professional industry, the jerks either drop out early... or they get promoted to management. Unless they are exceptionally gifted, they don't last long in the trenches, because collaboration is a practical requirement.

    One of my daughters has said that she wants to either run her own pet shelter or program video games. She spends a lot of time sketching out designs for both. I'm thinking that by the time she starts university (a decade from now), she'll probably lean more in the direction of IT and volunteer part time at a pet shelter. At least I hope she does.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • David.Poole

    SSC Guru

    Points: 75191

    At one of the SQL Bits conferences the topic of women in IT was a specific session.

    I'm struggling to recall if, throughout my career, the number of women even applying for DBA positions has reached double figures.

    Parity percentage is something that HR departments moan about and an obsession in some circles but if women don't apply in the first place then there is damn all I can act on. Just so we are clear "act on" means consider on their merits, not on some sort of patronizing "you're a woman but we'll make allowances" PC BS.

  • Eric M Russell

    SSC Guru

    Points: 125020

    Regarding the lack of women in DBA roles; I have seen far more female programmers, and I've seen a LOT more female BI developers and female project managers. Now that I think about it, I've seen more female IT executives than I have female DBAs. I believe that women seeking IT jobs generally tend to gravitate toward roles where there is more social interaction. There is a perception (broadly untrue) that database and server administrators are trolls who spend most of their time alone in a dark cave filled with beeping machinery.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • GeorgeCopeland

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 6885

    Lol no Eric, the troll part is true.

  • phonetictalk

    Hall of Fame

    Points: 3572

    David.Poole (12/4/2015)


    Parity percentage is something that HR departments moan about and an obsession in some circles but if women don't apply in the first place then there is damn all I can act on. Just so we are clear "act on" means consider on their merits, not on some sort of patronizing "you're a woman but we'll make allowances" PC BS.

    I wonder if that's true though. They way jobs are advertised & filled, for example, might be bias towards men. E.g. if I have a position open and go to a social group that's primarily men and advertise the position, I'd end up attracting more male candidates.

    A company can do more to make sure the position is reaching the eyes & ears of women.

    When I see an IT department that's entirely white & male in a sizeable city where there are certainly plenty of women in the technology field, the company isn't helpless. They can do more to attract female candidates and eliminate unintended bias.

    Leonard
    Madison, WI

  • djackson 22568

    SSChampion

    Points: 11713

    I have four kids, all of whom are likely to be exceptional in technology. All of them have been surfing the web since they were 2-years old. My eldest scored in the top 15% nationally in a security test, and just missed being invited to the state championship. He was in 8th grade at the time, and outscored people in HS and college along with adults. Some of the college attendees were students at Carnegie Mellon and MIT. I love technology. My kids love it.

    I will strongly encourage all of my children to stay as far away from technology as they can.

    Why would I say that?

    Well, the reason we work is to afford a decent life. Corporations are buying votes in both parties to increase the number of H1B visas each year. Those same companies are paying H1B holders significantly less than market rate. IT salaries have been flat for over a decade. If there really was a shortage of workers, salaries would be increasing faster than average.

    We also should expect to have a good work/life balance. 50-60 hour weeks, without being compensated for the effort, is NOT a good balance. Stress in IT is higher than it has ever been. Pay is below what it should be. The health of workers in IT is decreasing.

    Why would I encourage my kids to pursue something where the only compensation is an early death?

    I recognize these are strong statements, and that there are companies that are really trying to be fair. Overall, I just don't see IT as the best option. I am encouraging my children to look at what they enjoy, what the compensation level is, and the expected effort to be successful.

    Dave

  • djackson 22568

    SSChampion

    Points: 11713

    David.Poole (12/4/2015)


    At one of the SQL Bits conferences the topic of women in IT was a specific session.

    I'm struggling to recall if, throughout my career, the number of women even applying for DBA positions has reached double figures.

    Parity percentage is something that HR departments moan about and an obsession in some circles but if women don't apply in the first place then there is damn all I can act on. Just so we are clear "act on" means consider on their merits, not on some sort of patronizing "you're a woman but we'll make allowances" PC BS.

    I saw what some would consider to be a politically incorrect posting the other day - from a woman. She said that if females in college want pay equality with men, it is easy to achieve. Stop pursuing a degree in "gender enlightenment", and sign up for engineering classes.

    We can't expect our daughters (or any minority) to be successful if we coddle them. I particularly enjoyed the university leader that stated recently "college is not daycare". Too many parents, universities and leaders in our country are doing our children a disservice by telling them they "deserve" everything without effort.

    Dave

  • David.Poole

    SSC Guru

    Points: 75191

    phonetictalk (12/4/2015)


    David.Poole (12/4/2015)


    Parity percentage is something that HR departments moan about and an obsession in some circles but if women don't apply in the first place then there is damn all I can act on. Just so we are clear "act on" means consider on their merits, not on some sort of patronizing "you're a woman but we'll make allowances" PC BS.

    I wonder if that's true though. They way jobs are advertised & filled, for example, might be bias towards men. E.g. if I have a position open and go to a social group that's primarily men and advertise the position, I'd end up attracting more male candidates.

    A company can do more to make sure the position is reaching the eyes & ears of women.

    When I see an IT department that's entirely white & male in a sizeable city where there are certainly plenty of women in the technology field, the company isn't helpless. They can do more to attract female candidates and eliminate unintended bias.

    I've seen the job adverts and they are gender, race and physical ability neutral. I'd go as far as to describe them as dry as dust. We want this list of technical capabilities for our offices which are in these locations.

    If I have to write an advert to appeal to a particular section in society then my first question is why is it so important to do something other than the norm for a specific for that section of society? I'm not trying to sell a product, I'm trying to buy a resource.

    If I was having trouble recruiting then I might try something targeted but it would be amateur marketing at best. If there are no women in a DBA position then how do you know what would attract a woman to the role? Take a punt and find that the HR PC alert is on a hair trigger.

    I'm not aware of any of my DBA colleagues being trolls. You won't find a Johnny Depp clone amongst them either. Trolls hide under bridges so I'll have to check with our network guys.

  • djackson 22568

    SSChampion

    Points: 11713

    phonetictalk (12/4/2015)


    David.Poole (12/4/2015)


    Parity percentage is something that HR departments moan about and an obsession in some circles but if women don't apply in the first place then there is damn all I can act on. Just so we are clear "act on" means consider on their merits, not on some sort of patronizing "you're a woman but we'll make allowances" PC BS.

    I wonder if that's true though. They way jobs are advertised & filled, for example, might be bias towards men. E.g. if I have a position open and go to a social group that's primarily men and advertise the position, I'd end up attracting more male candidates.

    A company can do more to make sure the position is reaching the eyes & ears of women.

    When I see an IT department that's entirely white & male in a sizeable city where there are certainly plenty of women in the technology field, the company isn't helpless. They can do more to attract female candidates and eliminate unintended bias.

    I believe that in areas where a higher number of technologically qualified/experienced females exist, they tend to be employed at the few companies that understand the need to allow people to care for their families. One way to "do more" is to staff appropriately so that women (and men!) can take care of their kids. Whether women are just smarter than men when it comes to taking care of the family, or some other reason - I believe women are less likely to settle for a job that prevents them from raising their kids.

    Dave

  • GeorgeCopeland

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 6885

    There is nothing wrong with making an effort to find more women, advertise with professional organizations, etc.

    The best way to improve diversity in an IT operation is to implement virtual workplace technologies.

  • Eric M Russell

    SSC Guru

    Points: 125020

    I don't have any complaints about the IT industry in general. There are plenty of IT jobs out there that pay > $100k + health insurance and don't require more than 40 hours in a normal week. Or course you have to work up to it. Other professions like sales and nursing ask more from their employees for less pay, especially during the first several years. I'd definitely encourage my daughters to peruse the career, if they show an aptitude and interest for it. But I believe that the primary reason there aren't as many women in IT is because women (generally speaking) aren't as interested in it. We as an industry need to work on our public relations image and dispel the negative stereotype that (with the exception of government IT) we're not cubicle zombies and server room trolls.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • julie.woolner

    SSC-Addicted

    Points: 468

    djackson 22568 (12/4/2015)


    phonetictalk (12/4/2015)


    David.Poole (12/4/2015)


    Whether women are just smarter than men when it comes to taking care of the family, or some other reason - I believe women are less likely to settle for a job that prevents them from raising their kids.

    It often comes down to the division of labour within the family unit. That's still frequently uneven with the woman responsible for the bulk of home and child focused duties. That in itself makes anything involving on-call unattractive; they are already on-call for their families.

    Having been a DBA for the greater part of my career I can say I've seen very few female applicants or actual DBAs, but those rare individuals have mostly been very good DBAs (and had the strong and assertive characters necessary to cope in predominantly male environments).

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