November 5, 2013 at 12:17 am
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 5, 2013 at 12:39 am
dwain.c (11/4/2013)
Sounds like you have the luxury of an orderly, controlled shop. Congratulations for exercising such strict controls (and being able to)!
I don't think of them as strict controls although I can certainly see why some people might. I'm actually terribly concerned that I've had to implement such controls in virtually every shop I've worked in. I just don't understand why these types of things aren't just common sense. I actually hate having to implement such controls because they take a huge amount of my time. The only good things about such controls is that they do give me one-on-one time with each Developer so that I can do a little mentoring and the code that comes out of the end of the process.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 5, 2013 at 1:01 am
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛
I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 5, 2013 at 1:13 am
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
And if you fail, that's when you break out the high-velocity pork chops I presume.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 5, 2013 at 1:22 am
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
And if you fail, that's when you break out the high-velocity pork chops I presume.
Nope. In such a case, that would simply be another failure on my part. I've found that the people I'm successful with want to learn. My real failure is sometimes failing to recognize those that don't actually want to learn.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 5, 2013 at 1:43 am
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
I'm well aware of that. You and I have had this conversation before and I absolutely agree. I should have said "and that someone is wrong because making good choices as to data type is NOT a pre-optimization."
Yup. Just putting it out there for those who read this and don't know.
I think I need to write something on this topic...
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
November 5, 2013 at 2:03 am
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
And if you fail, that's when you break out the high-velocity pork chops I presume.
Nope. In such a case, that would simply be another failure on my part. I've found that the people I'm successful with want to learn. My real failure is sometimes failing to recognize those that don't actually want to learn.
You sir, have the patience of Job, the generosity of Mother Theresa and the wisdom of Yoda.
If all the world were composed of individuals with such grace, it would surely be a better place.
Me, I'm just a grumpy old man! 😛
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 6, 2013 at 1:05 pm
GilaMonster (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
I'm well aware of that. You and I have had this conversation before and I absolutely agree. I should have said "and that someone is wrong because making good choices as to data type is NOT a pre-optimization."Yup. Just putting it out there for those who read this and don't know.
I think I need to write something on this topic...
Thanks, Gail. It would be a real pleasure to proof read it for you, if you'd like. I saw a part of something that you did on the "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" thing and it was absolutely awesome.
I'll also try to remember to add the missing part on the next post that comes up on this subject. I'd left out a really important part on this one until you reminded me.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Jeff Moden (11/6/2013)
GilaMonster (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
I'm well aware of that. You and I have had this conversation before and I absolutely agree. I should have said "and that someone is wrong because making good choices as to data type is NOT a pre-optimization."Yup. Just putting it out there for those who read this and don't know.
I think I need to write something on this topic...
Thanks, Gail. It would be a real pleasure to proof read it for you, if you'd like. I saw a part of something that you did on the "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" thing and it was absolutely awesome.
I'll also try to remember to add the missing part on the next post that comes up on this subject. I'd left out a really important part on this one until you reminded me.
At the risk of showing my ignorance (again), I had never heard of this Knuth quote "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" so I Googled it. I found a Wiki page that listed it with some links to the original source but they seemed to be all dead. I'd like to read about what Knuth actually said in context. You know how quotes can sometimes be misconstrued when out of context.
Do you know of any links that work where he is describing it?
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 6, 2013 at 8:02 pm
dwain.c (11/6/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/6/2013)
GilaMonster (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
I'm well aware of that. You and I have had this conversation before and I absolutely agree. I should have said "and that someone is wrong because making good choices as to data type is NOT a pre-optimization."Yup. Just putting it out there for those who read this and don't know.
I think I need to write something on this topic...
Thanks, Gail. It would be a real pleasure to proof read it for you, if you'd like. I saw a part of something that you did on the "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" thing and it was absolutely awesome.
I'll also try to remember to add the missing part on the next post that comes up on this subject. I'd left out a really important part on this one until you reminded me.
At the risk of showing my ignorance (again), I had never heard of this Knuth quote "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" so I Googled it. I found a Wiki page that listed it with some links to the original source but they seemed to be all dead. I'd like to read about what Knuth actually said in context. You know how quotes can sometimes be misconstrued when out of context.
Do you know of any links that work where he is describing it?
Indeed I do...
http://sbel.wisc.edu/Courses/ME964/Literature/knuthProgramming1974.pdf
Once you have that PDF loaded, just search for the word "evil" and it will take you to the quote on page 8 of the PDF (originally numbered page "268" in the original book). And, indeed, many have taken what the man has said totally out of context. Many have, in my humble opinion, warped the word "premature" to suit their own needs as they have also done with the word "optimization".
But I'll let you draw your own conclusions from the article at the URL above.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2013 at 8:09 pm
Jeff Moden (11/6/2013)
dwain.c (11/6/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/6/2013)
GilaMonster (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
I'm well aware of that. You and I have had this conversation before and I absolutely agree. I should have said "and that someone is wrong because making good choices as to data type is NOT a pre-optimization."Yup. Just putting it out there for those who read this and don't know.
I think I need to write something on this topic...
Thanks, Gail. It would be a real pleasure to proof read it for you, if you'd like. I saw a part of something that you did on the "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" thing and it was absolutely awesome.
I'll also try to remember to add the missing part on the next post that comes up on this subject. I'd left out a really important part on this one until you reminded me.
At the risk of showing my ignorance (again), I had never heard of this Knuth quote "Preoptimization is the root of all evil" so I Googled it. I found a Wiki page that listed it with some links to the original source but they seemed to be all dead. I'd like to read about what Knuth actually said in context. You know how quotes can sometimes be misconstrued when out of context.
Do you know of any links that work where he is describing it?
Indeed I do...
http://sbel.wisc.edu/Courses/ME964/Literature/knuthProgramming1974.pdf
Once you have that PDF loaded, just search for the word "evil" and it will take you to the quote on page 8 of the PDF (originally numbered page "268" in the original book). And, indeed, many have taken what the man has said totally out of context. Many have, in my humble opinion, warped the word "premature" to suit their own needs as they have also done with the word "optimization".
But I'll let you draw your own conclusions from the article at the URL above.
Thank you sir! Downloading that now. Structured programming with loops? Heresy! Or so I was taught. Should be an interesting read.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 6, 2013 at 8:28 pm
I almost forgot. I misquoted the man probably because I've heard it misquoted by others so often. The actual quote should commence with "premature optimization" rather than "pre-optimization".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2013 at 8:34 pm
Based on cursory review of the information surrounding the quote, I'm in a position of "initial reluctance to agree."
I'm thinking that part of that 97% he talks about should be addressed if it can be done without significant overhead to getting the code written and tested.
Need to take a deep dive to see if my initial position holds fast.
Then again, who am I to disagree with the distinguished Dr. Knuth! 😛
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
November 6, 2013 at 8:37 pm
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
And if you fail, that's when you break out the high-velocity pork chops I presume.
Nope. In such a case, that would simply be another failure on my part. I've found that the people I'm successful with want to learn. My real failure is sometimes failing to recognize those that don't actually want to learn.
You sir, have the patience of Job, the generosity of Mother Theresa and the wisdom of Yoda.
If all the world were composed of individuals with such grace, it would surely be a better place.
Me, I'm just a grumpy old man! 😛
While I'm honored that it seems that way, I have to confess that it's more inline with the selfish act of self-preservation and time available. I'd much rather take the time to teach someone that wants to learn than to try to teach the proverbial pig to fly. Because it was decades ago when I first heard it, I've forgotten the source but there's an old saying that still rings true today.
"A man forced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Jeff Moden (11/6/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2013)
dwain.c (11/5/2013)
For what it's worth, I'm in favor of a selective culling of the gene pool. 😛I assure you, it's just words from some serious pent up frustration from working with some folks that don't get it. Rest assurred that I take the high road and try to educate them. I'm not always successful but I do try.
And if you fail, that's when you break out the high-velocity pork chops I presume.
Nope. In such a case, that would simply be another failure on my part. I've found that the people I'm successful with want to learn. My real failure is sometimes failing to recognize those that don't actually want to learn.
You sir, have the patience of Job, the generosity of Mother Theresa and the wisdom of Yoda.
If all the world were composed of individuals with such grace, it would surely be a better place.
Me, I'm just a grumpy old man! 😛
While I'm honored that it seems that way, I have to confess that it's more inline with the selfish act of self-preservation and time available. I'd much rather take the time to teach someone that wants to learn than to try to teach the proverbial pig to fly. Because it was decades ago when I first heard it, I've forgotten the source but there's an old saying that still rings true today.
"A man forced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
Isn't the proverbial high-velocity pork chop, merely a pig flying in disguise?
But we digress.
I've heard that quote too and agree with it.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
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