October 10, 2016 at 2:04 am
Google are clearly working on this as best they can. I expect them to improve significantly on their present ability over the next 5 years.
In the meantime - joining a forum such as this is an excellent start in getting some kind of curation. With time you tend to internally grade participant members and will consider advice with reference to their standing much like you would at work.
I certainly started writing my own blog as a curation device really for myself to act as a store of useful links and proven things that I know work for me, and should I need it, a source that I can pass on to others. I have even written my own database tool that allows me to store code - search on it and store links that is more flexible than my wordpress site and I don't feel I need to have as accurate as my blog.
Work colleagues that are on big salaries but have largely dropped the ball when it comes to the basics are disappointing but it is I think a problem in all professions. It is also I think a problem of a wealthy civilised society that we can carry dead weight. There is nothing like external pressures of bankruptcy , financial crisis or people having to really really deliver to clear the tinder from the trees. I certainly see the lag between bad decisions and disaster as a major issue. Personally I concentrate on acting unilaterally to stem issues at source by the most theoretically coherent solution. My wife is eastern european and having lived through 2 financial crises was initially completely ruthless when she came across incompetence but she is becoming increasingly soft as she adjusts to a more western lifestyle.
For me it comes down to the fact that I can improve myself and be as good as I can be unilaterally for as long as I have a sound mind and body and if I do that its probably the best I can do.
October 10, 2016 at 2:42 am
I am not a fan of any response except a "go have a look" when someone asks "how do I do this?". My reasoning is that even if you give them a link then you are encouraging them to be lazy and reliant on others.
However, if someone asks "I want to achieve this but I can't find out how to do it, do you know?" or "I want to achieve this but I have been offered two different solutions, X and Y, and I don't know which is better in my scenario, any advice?" then we can assist them.
This was how my education taught me it should work. I truly believe that doing too much for other people does not help them in a long run. Doing too little is not right either.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 10, 2016 at 3:31 am
umailedit (10/8/2016)
You could implement a stackexchange type qa site, instead of or in addition to a forum. A qa site will restrict duplicate questions unlike forums.
Such as the one at https://ask.sqlservercentral.com? Been around for years, and is plugged from the main SSC homepage.
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
October 10, 2016 at 6:37 am
pdanes (10/9/2016)
Another thing that might help is to go back to the articles and add more keywords. I have occasionally had trouble finding something on this site because I didn't know the proper terminology.
Thanks for the suggestion. You reminded me how important "indexing" is (in the traditional "index cards" rather than the more specific SQL sense 😉 ). I've put that down as a way of improving something I'm working on. 🙂
Tom Gillies LinkedIn Profilewww.DuhallowGreyGeek.com[/url]
October 10, 2016 at 7:05 am
Gary Varga (10/10/2016)
I am not a fan of any response except a "go have a look" when someone asks "how do I do this?". My reasoning is that even if you give them a link then you are encouraging them to be lazy and reliant on others.However, if someone asks "I want to achieve this but I can't find out how to do it, do you know?" or "I want to achieve this but I have been offered two different solutions, X and Y, and I don't know which is better in my scenario, any advice?" then we can assist them.
This was how my education taught me it should work. I truly believe that doing too much for other people does not help them in a long run. Doing too little is not right either.
Hm, I don't see any difference between "how do I do this?" and "I want to achieve this but I can't find out how to do it, do you know?". What am I missing?
October 10, 2016 at 7:36 am
Unfortunately I think some of the problems originate with Microsoft's documentation itself. Sure there's MSDN and TechNet resources online, but I remember back when I was first getting into SQL Server finding them verbose, but difficult to find the information you need from them. Over the years, MS reorganized them so much trying to improve them, but they haven't focused enough on the content in my opinion. MS also tends to come up with their own terminology for things that are or should be industry standard. They even will change the name of something occasionally leaving more confusion in their wake.
October 10, 2016 at 7:55 am
Stefan LG (10/10/2016)
But these ‘basic’ websites are not always suitable for all scenarios and you definitely need the help of other professionals and in-depth articles.This is why we all invest time and effort to subscribe and follow websites like this one. (And thanks to the contributors for their time and effort!)
And what happens when the "professionals" who mentor others and write those in-depth articles retire? We're all going to die someday. If nobody digs into how things work and why, there won't be anyone left. At that time, the people with "learned helplessness" and apathy are going to be truly helpless because there won't be anyone left to help them. Where does that leave the data?
Stefan LG (10/10/2016)
Higher education institutions should teach students the basic concepts of database design, implementation and programming.I think it is pointless to learn all the little quirks and syntax rules of a subject – that is things you pick up and learn during your career.
I've heard of good programming courses in universities, but I've never seen a good DBA course. A co-worker of mine recently got his MBA and was required to take a DBA course. Every week, he'd share the content of the class with me. It was fine for theoretical knowledge, but didn't contain much for practical application. He said he learned more from me about backups, performance tuning and technique than he did in his courses. BTW, since we worked together, I didn't cost several hundred dollars per credit hour.
October 10, 2016 at 8:10 am
ken.romero (10/10/2016)
Gary Varga (10/10/2016)
I am not a fan of any response except a "go have a look" when someone asks "how do I do this?". My reasoning is that even if you give them a link then you are encouraging them to be lazy and reliant on others.However, if someone asks "I want to achieve this but I can't find out how to do it, do you know?" or "I want to achieve this but I have been offered two different solutions, X and Y, and I don't know which is better in my scenario, any advice?" then we can assist them.
This was how my education taught me it should work. I truly believe that doing too much for other people does not help them in a long run. Doing too little is not right either.
Hm, I don't see any difference between "how do I do this?" and "I want to achieve this but I can't find out how to do it, do you know?". What am I missing?
An attempt, even just some thinking, to help oneself.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 10, 2016 at 9:49 am
Chris Harshman (10/10/2016)
Unfortunately I think some of the problems originate with Microsoft's documentation itself. Sure there's MSDN and TechNet resources online, but I remember back when I was first getting into SQL Server finding them verbose, but difficult to find the information you need from them. Over the years, MS reorganized them so much trying to improve them, but they haven't focused enough on the content in my opinion. MS also tends to come up with their own terminology for things that are or should be industry standard. They even will change the name of something occasionally leaving more confusion in their wake.
I have noticed on Microsoft.com sites that they'll sometimes have disclaimers that this page is deprecated or refers to an older version of the software. This, at least, gives you a warning that you're dealing with old information -- but if you're maintaining a SQL 2005 system that can't be upgraded, you might need that old information.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
October 10, 2016 at 11:05 am
I found the Microsoft Certified Pro courses to be very useful
October 10, 2016 at 11:30 am
You can use my wiki for your answers, then just provide the link to the appropriate page.
The main page of the wiki is https://sqlserver.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
412-977-3526 call/text
October 10, 2016 at 3:10 pm
--"This raises the question: is there something we can and should do about it? How do we make forums such those on SQLServerCentral act as a more coherent and reliable senior DBA? How might they do a better job of helping train people up until they can reliably use the search engine as their junior DBA?"
There are, basically, an infinite number of good and bad questions we can ask on our search browser. And there are an infinite number of good and bad answers to those same questions. Even if there were only good answers available they would still be potentially wrong or out-of-date because of the evolution (I wanted to say improvement, but I've grown cynical in my old age) of software versions. Ultimately this comes down to self education. We have to read. And read some more. And then go back and read it again.
We're good (hopefully) at SQL and understanding relational database concepts. This in no way makes us good teachers. It does not make our professional forums good places to learn broad SQL or database concepts. It does make them excellent places to answer specific questions about relatively obscure situations and errors, as well as best practices. But those sites do not help the poor young adult in their first "real job" desperately flipping through a "Learn SQL in 10 Minutes" book, scratching their head wondering what the heck is the difference between a WHERE and HAVING.
If we want to make it easier to learn SQL then we should elicit the help of professional teachers. Or look at what some other industries have done to improve visibility and retention of their material.
October 10, 2016 at 10:55 pm
Ed Wagner (10/10/2016)
Stefan LG (10/10/2016)
But these ‘basic’ websites are not always suitable for all scenarios and you definitely need the help of other professionals and in-depth articles.This is why we all invest time and effort to subscribe and follow websites like this one. (And thanks to the contributors for their time and effort!)
And what happens when the "professionals" who mentor others and write those in-depth articles retire? We're all going to die someday. If nobody digs into how things work and why, there won't be anyone left. At that time, the people with "learned helplessness" and apathy are going to be truly helpless because there won't be anyone left to help them. Where does that leave the data?
Another issue to consider is the digital preservation (or the loss of digital data) on the Internet.
Will this website still exists in 5 years' time?
If not, what will happen to the digital content etc?
Regarding the retirement/death of professionals:
Maybe we should all adopt the mind set of 'giving back' to the community.
We all use the Internet for research and demand that information be freely available with as little advertisements as possible (myself included).
However, as we become professionals in our field, maybe we should start contributing to blogs and websites such as this.
Yes, there will always be people and trolls that will criticize your efforts, but if 1 out of 10 people might benefit from it, it was worth the while.
Companies might also provide incentive in terms of money to employees that publish articles on public forums.
OK, they will require the company name to be mentioned somewhere, but if it is done subtly, nobody will really mind.
Even Steve Jones sometimes mention his employer in his editorials!
October 11, 2016 at 1:16 am
To my mind, we have done quite a good job of coming to the conclusion that SQLServerCentral.com provides a number of different ways to learn, recall and impart knowledge. There will be a number of sites out there covering a range of subjects that will be doing a similar job. Here we have a community where beginners to experts help a wide variety of people whose range is beginners to experts.
We are all teachers. And all learners.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 11, 2016 at 3:52 am
Stefan LG (10/10/2016)
Companies might also provide incentive in terms of money to employees that publish articles on public forums.
Mine does that, and they don't require any name dropping at all.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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