Bad Manners

  • William Plummer

    SSC Eights!

    Points: 803

    OK, here I go again... A little off the topic but others touched on it so I'll use this thread to drop an odd idea or two.

    First, I'm a developer that happens to do a lot of database work and have used and intend to purchase more Red Gate products. I think they work pretty good, but I am glad for the competition from all vendors. You all make my life easier...

    This last weekend I spent about 6 hours viewing videos and power points from the 4th Annual Desktop Linus Summit 2006. I was trying to get a feel for the state of the industry in supplying desktop solutions. I do all my development on virtual computers and have a need for a slim fast operating system that will allow me to boot quickly and open the virtual computer of the day and continue working. I'm not sure if Linux is the right choice, but other than Windows XP Pro it appears to be my only choice.

    As you know Vista has a heavier foot print (requires more system resources) and additional big brother software built in to keep you from running pirated media. MS has done with Vista what they have done in the past with operating systems. Add a lot of features and hope people will put up with the slower speeds and other restrictions until the hardware gets faster and the bad press dies down on the restrictions. Well, I think they are probably right, and Vista will be a success. However, it does not answer my personal needs for a slim fast operating system to run my development virtual computers. So I sit at a cross roads not wanting to leave my roots, but having needs that Bill is neglecting at the moment:-) (Bill's my hero... nothing meant to offend here Mr. Gates:-)

    Do any of you suffer from the "what do I do next" for an IT desktop systems???

  • Simon Facer

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 5427

    One thing that no-one has mentioned - the number of times Mr Boule posted his message has to qualify as spamming the forums.

    Did anyone else read Mr Lockwood's blog - the one titled "Stand up for an Independent SQL Community - be Informed"? A little bit of bile here, isn't there, Mr Lockwood? Are you taking marketing tips from (American) politicians standing for election?

  • Chris-232075

    SSCrazy

    Points: 2070

    I agree and disagree with Steve's comments this morning. 

    I agree that a person shouldn't cut and paste from an article, or anyplace else for that matter, without giving proper credit. 

    I don't agree that when person provides accurate information in an appropriate forum, that the source needs to disclose the fact that he or she has a financial interest in sharing such information.  Unless the source has a prior record of making false statements, it doesn't matter to me who the source is.  (If the comments are inaccurate or misleading, then that's another story altogether.) 

    Also, I love this site and the editorials.  However, this is the second time I've seen Steve out somebody on this forum for behaving in a way that he doesn't agree with.  I would prefer that Steve send the person a private e-mail warning first.  If they break the rules again -- then let 'em have it. 

  • Steve Jones - SSC Editor

    SSC Guru

    Points: 717415

    Chris,

    Valid comments and I did email Mr. Boule and did not get a response. I also emailed someone else at Quest.

    Also, I received 2 or 3 email complaints about the posting. I don't censor people lightly, but I do call out behavior I think it wrong. And I accept the criticism for doing so. Perhaps I was heavy handed. I'm certainly willing to accept that fact.

    I happen to be in charge, so I have to make the decisions about when it's inappropriate and when it should be called out. I had to ban someone else yesterday and posted a note to that effect in the thread so people would be aware I had done it. I've also left my name on posts that I've edited and given reasons for it.

    If I was heavy handed, I apologize.

  • Michael Valentine Jones

    SSC Guru

    Points: 64818

    Bob didn’t make it clear in his post that he had a commercial interest in what he posted, he cross-posted to about 8 forums, and it wasn’t clear to me that what he posted was someone else’s work.

    This behavior was bad enough that I wondered if this was really a “Joe Job” attack meant to embarrass Quest by making them look unethical.  Has the real Bob Boule acknowledged that this was actually his post?

    Oh, and I don't work for a vendor or use the products of Redgate, Quest, or ApexSQL.  The comments and behavior of the vendor people about this have certainly not increased my interest in any of their products.

     

     

     

     

  • Chris-232075

    SSCrazy

    Points: 2070

    Thanks Steve!!!

  • Brian Lockwood

    SSCarpal Tunnel

    Points: 4028

    Mr Facer,

    pls leave your anti-U.S. xenophobia out of this discussion. 

    I'm not taking "tips" from anybody bro - but if you are looking for some "tips" in media manipulation (and reading my blog anyway) check out this post http://www.apexsql.com/lockwood/2006/11/out-foxed.html - the "fair and balanced" moniker roughly translates to a "community service by Red-Gate" in my mind.   

    PS.  Rupert Murdoch isn't an American. 

     

    Brian Lockwood
    President
    ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials

    http://www.apexsql.com/blog

    Stand up for an Independent SQL Community - be Informed

  • Michael Valentine Jones

    SSC Guru

    Points: 64818

    Brian,

    I didn't see anything in Simon Facer's post to qualify as "anti-U.S. xenophobia", unless that means someone who disagrees with you.

    If you are trying to get the message out that you think it is terrible that Red-Gate owns this site, I think your message has been heard.  However, Red-Gate owns this site, and is free to do with it what they want, even if you don’t like it.

    If it is so important to you and you really want to do something about it, start your own SQL Server community site and show the community a better way.

     

  • Brian Lockwood

    SSCarpal Tunnel

    Points: 4028

    read the part where he singles out the "American" political process (the inference is that it's inherently bad).  It's got no place in this discussion.  He could say "political" without the American qualification and accomplish the same thing.  but he didn't ...

    and I'm free to say whatever I want (at least for the time being) - even if you don't like it.  so in the battle of swapping meaningless platitudes this is a draw.  The difference is I am not putting myself up as a "service" to the SQL Server community.  Actually I am - come to think of it - if you read the description of my blog where I claim to be a "community service to the sql community" but that's actually "tongue in cheek". 

    thanks for the great business advice (I've actually never heard this before) - but I think I am "doing something about it".  if it weren't for me (and a lot of others) we wouldn't have these wonderful vendor specific forums that attract nothing but plagarism, flames and trash talking!  something good had to come out of this sale to Red-Gate!

     

     

    Brian Lockwood
    President
    ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials

    http://www.apexsql.com/blog

    Stand up for an Independent SQL Community - be Informed

  • Michael Valentine Jones

    SSC Guru

    Points: 64818

    Brian,

    You are posting criticisms of Red-Gate on a site that they own, and I don’t see any effort to remove your posts, so the censorship doesn’t seem too oppressive to me.

    I think calling Simon Facer's post "anti-U.S. xenophobia" is way over the top, and certainly qualifies as the “flames and trash talking” you are so proud to have brought here.

     

     

  • Brian Lockwood

    SSCarpal Tunnel

    Points: 4028

    i'll stand by my statement.  I'm sure Simon can defend himself if he feels the need.

    I didn't "bring" trash talking to this thread (your posts included) nor did I invite Simon to flame me - but you're welcome to blame me for all this if you want.  kinda follows your logic trail.

     

     

    Brian Lockwood
    President
    ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials

    http://www.apexsql.com/blog

    Stand up for an Independent SQL Community - be Informed

  • SQLBill

    SSC Guru

    Points: 51440

    I do not work for RedGate, Quest, ApexSolutions, or SQLServerCentral.com. I am a SQL Server DBA for a major U.S. Airline.

    I saw Bob Boule's post (one of the many) and made a response to him. Then I noticed it in another forum and requested that he not cross-post. Later, I noticed that in two threads he had been 'outed'. I clicked on his name and found the only posts he made on this site were all the same thing. I then emailed Steve, pointed this out to him and included that some posters felt he was the "Bob Boule" from Quest -a competitor. I asked him to look into this and consider removing some or all the posts.

    I am one of the people that are responsible for the "a community service by RedGate" appearing.

    I feel that if you are a competitor, you should state so. If you 'bash' or 'cheer' products, you need to add a disclaimer if you are a competitor or an employee. Look at Brian Lockwood, he is a prime example of stating who you work for. I may not always agree with him, but I respect his opinions/comments as I can tell 'where he is coming from'.

    It appears that Bob's multiple posts were solely to bash RedGate and do so by appearing anonymous. That is what makes it wrong.

    This site is owned by RedGate and it says so. As should be expected, they manage the financial part of it (ads). But so far, I have seen no proof that they control what Steve puts on the site or how he runs the forums. Do you really think that if they 'controlled' Steve, that Brian Lockwood's posts would exist on this site? Or some of the other ones that have not had good things to say about RedGate? I believe that Bob's post (at least one of them) would still be available IF he had just stated who he worked for.

    -SQLBill

  • Simon Facer

    SSCertifiable

    Points: 5427

    Mr Lockwood,

    I believe you misinterpreted my comments (probably deliberately). My inclusion of "(American)" has nothing to do with anti (or pro) American bias, it was simply an acknowledgement that there are many nationalities that read the postings on this site. Your comment about leaving out the "American" in my original post is valid, but doesn't justify your subsequent name calling. By descending to such a level, you validate my point, in that you are acting in the same way as the worst politico's do - respond to a criticism by questioning someone's patriotism.

    As for comments about my "anti-US xenophobia" - do you know my nationality, my loyalties, my views on anything outside of this forum? Don't you realize that everything you do on this site reflects for good or ill on your company? If the president of a company is prepared to court with slander on a semi-public web site, then what does that say about the company itself. After all, the  corporate image and corporate character flow from the top.

  • Nick Warren-382826

    Grasshopper

    Points: 14

    Over the past two days, there have been some comments posted in forums about Red Gate Software's licensing agreement for SQL Backup. The clause in the license agreement referred to in these posts is designed to prevent the use of a single license on multiple machines by continually transferring the license between machines. We can see, however, that the wording of the license can be interpreted in a different, more sinister way. It was never intended to stop people from transferring licenses in the case of upgrades, replacement of old equipment, reorganization, or any other legitimate reason, and we apologize if customers or prospective customers interpreted it this way.

    I believe that any customer who does business with Red Gate Software knows that we operate in an atmosphere of trust and respect. We are working now on changing our licensing terms to make our policies clear. In the meantime, if anybody is concerned about this issue, please contact me directly at nick.warren@red-gate.com.

    While we welcome competitive comparisons of products in open forums, the recent postings regarding our licensing issues seem to carry another purpose: to spread unwarranted fear and alarm in an effort to undermine Red Gate's credibility. We do not think that this is the purpose of forums, and we will not engage in these types of exchanges.

    As for the suitability of SQL Backup in an enterprise environment, nearly 4000 customers -- including many Fortune 500 companies -- have selected Red Gate's product as the best choice for critical backup needs. We invite you to compare our products to our competitors in an environment of full disclosure, and send your comments to us, or post them on public forums, where we will be glad to respond.

    Nick Warren

    Head of Customer Support, Red Gate Software

  • SQLGuy64

    Ten Centuries

    Points: 1051

    dude, give it a rest.  On the home page there is weblink entitled Provided by RedGate that links directly to their site.

    I hope the rest of your company isn't as big of a butt head as you.  Your products are well thought of.  Perhaps you should tone it down.  Your posts reflect on your product.  Get a clue.

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