December 9, 2019 at 8:48 am
On the subject of questions getting worse, here's what it has finally come to. Notice in the zip file that there is absolutely everything that one might need to get the job done... the OP made sure that someone else could do THEIR job. They didn't even try.
https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/query-tuning-help-2
I am suspicious of that user
MVDBA
December 9, 2019 at 9:06 am
Jeff Moden wrote:On the subject of questions getting worse, here's what it has finally come to. Notice in the zip file that there is absolutely everything that one might need to get the job done... the OP made sure that someone else could do THEIR job. They didn't even try.
https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/query-tuning-help-2
I am suspicious of that user
I do have to agree that i feel that that user has been misusing (abusing) the kindness of others from here at times. Some of the questions they ask are quite complex and they treat here more like a free consultancy service than a Q&A/discussion Forum. I wouldn't mind as much if they contributed to the discussion, but is rarely (never) a contributor to the discussion other than to say "that doesn't work" or "how do I do that?". I suspect that they are someone who is way in over their head, and uses places such as here to "do their job".
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
December 9, 2019 at 12:16 pm
I suspect that they are someone who is way in over their head, and uses places such as here to "do their job".
Just to be a contrarian, I'm ok with that.
Eventually, they won't be over their head and, maybe (maybe not), they'll remember all the help they got here and they'll pay it forward. I want to help, especially the people that are utterly lost.
Yeah, far too many are jerks about it. I even have a couple of people who are treating me as free consulting (believe me, I cut that down pretty hard in email & DMs). I've even had someone get extremely angry when I wouldn't, for free, on my own time, go through their 5,000 line pile of crap T-SQL and, not simply identify issues, but fix it fore them. I was called names because I wouldn't just freely do hard, long, painstaking, work.
However, those are the exceptions. Most of the rest are grateful, even if they say nothing. So, I keep answering questions, even though they're frequently the same question. I want to help.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
December 9, 2019 at 12:28 pm
Thom A wrote:I suspect that they are someone who is way in over their head, and uses places such as here to "do their job".
Just to be a contrarian, I'm ok with that.
Eventually, they won't be over their head and, maybe (maybe not), they'll remember all the help they got here and they'll pay it forward. I want to help, especially the people that are utterly lost.
Yeah, far too many are jerks about it. I even have a couple of people who are treating me as free consulting (believe me, I cut that down pretty hard in email & DMs). I've even had someone get extremely angry when I wouldn't, for free, on my own time, go through their 5,000 line pile of crap T-SQL and, not simply identify issues, but fix it fore them. I was called names because I wouldn't just freely do hard, long, painstaking, work.
However, those are the exceptions. Most of the rest are grateful, even if they say nothing. So, I keep answering questions, even though they're frequently the same question. I want to help.
I was regularly asking more than I was contributing when I was 20 (im 42 now) - so I agree, pay it forward!!! 🙂
maybe we should be encouraging new users to contribute a little. It will boost their confidence and i'm pretty sure steve would love some articles about how a junior dba learns
MVDBA
December 9, 2019 at 12:46 pm
it would be nice to get a thankyou occasionally though. 🙂 I think off the top of my head I see about 10 users who do most of the "heavy lifting" on here - and being abused just makes you want to stop helping - we can't lose these users
MVDBA
December 9, 2019 at 1:49 pm
Grant Fritchey wrote:Thom A wrote:I suspect that they are someone who is way in over their head, and uses places such as here to "do their job".
Just to be a contrarian, I'm ok with that.
Eventually, they won't be over their head and, maybe (maybe not), they'll remember all the help they got here and they'll pay it forward. I want to help, especially the people that are utterly lost.
Yeah, far too many are jerks about it. I even have a couple of people who are treating me as free consulting (believe me, I cut that down pretty hard in email & DMs). I've even had someone get extremely angry when I wouldn't, for free, on my own time, go through their 5,000 line pile of crap T-SQL and, not simply identify issues, but fix it fore them. I was called names because I wouldn't just freely do hard, long, painstaking, work.
However, those are the exceptions. Most of the rest are grateful, even if they say nothing. So, I keep answering questions, even though they're frequently the same question. I want to help.
I was regularly asking more than I was contributing when I was 20 (im 42 now) - so I agree, pay it forward!!! 🙂
maybe we should be encouraging new users to contribute a little. It will boost their confidence and i'm pretty sure steve would love some articles about how a junior dba learns
I have tried that with a select few that I thought would be quite helpful in areas I knew I was weak, unfortunately it failed. They have to want to help for the encouragement to work. Not sure how to get someone who really doesn't want to contribute to do so.
December 9, 2019 at 1:58 pm
They have to want to help for the encouragement to work. Not sure how to get someone who really doesn't want to contribute to do so.
Just a few weeks ago there was an update to the SO points system. They sent an email that said: "We’ve increased the value for upvotes to questions. We doubled the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to a question to 10 points. This makes it equal to the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to an answer.We recalculated reputation for everyone on Stack Overflow based on this change. Any question upvote earned in the past was awarded a value of 10 reputation points"
https://stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/13/were-rewarding-the-question-askers/
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können
December 9, 2019 at 2:04 pm
Lynn Pettis wrote:They have to want to help for the encouragement to work. Not sure how to get someone who really doesn't want to contribute to do so.
Just a few weeks ago there was an update to the SO points system. They sent an email that said: "We’ve increased the value for upvotes to questions. We doubled the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to a question to 10 points. This makes it equal to the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to an answer.We recalculated reputation for everyone on Stack Overflow based on this change. Any question upvote earned in the past was awarded a value of 10 reputation points"
https://stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/13/were-rewarding-the-question-askers/
Not sure what you're point is there, but that change has been very poorly received the community at SO: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/391250/3484879
Personally, I don't see "internet points" as a reward. I actually dislike that you need some of them to be able to use SO to it "full" potential, like commenting on a question to be able to ask the OP for clarification (why is that a "priviledge"?).
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
December 9, 2019 at 2:21 pm
Lynn
I was thinking that if you show them that if you contribute to the community then you get the Rockstar job. lord alone, look at Grant, he gets flown around the world... show them what they can acheive
my old company used to use the phrase "improve your personal brand"
MVDBA
December 9, 2019 at 3:13 pm
Steve Collins wrote:Lynn Pettis wrote:They have to want to help for the encouragement to work. Not sure how to get someone who really doesn't want to contribute to do so.
Just a few weeks ago there was an update to the SO points system. They sent an email that said: "We’ve increased the value for upvotes to questions. We doubled the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to a question to 10 points. This makes it equal to the reputation points earned from getting an upvote to an answer.We recalculated reputation for everyone on Stack Overflow based on this change. Any question upvote earned in the past was awarded a value of 10 reputation points"
https://stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/13/were-rewarding-the-question-askers/
Not sure what you're point is there, but that change has been very poorly received the community at SO: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/391250/3484879
Personally, I don't see "internet points" as a reward. I actually dislike that you need some of them to be able to use SO to it "full" potential, like commenting on a question to be able to ask the OP for clarification (why is that a "priviledge"?).
There's a temptation to mess with the equation and "fatten the goose" by stuffing food down its throat. It's not a good move imo. In economics if you subsidize something you get more demand and less profit. From a Sql Server community point of view I think the profit is from legitimate questions driven by real business requirements. Who cares even a little bit about quantity? Too much fiddling with the rules to "encourage" behavior brings in game players and results in bullshit questions. How SSC works is a separate conversation but I think it should continue to be about quality above everything else.
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können
December 9, 2019 at 3:41 pm
Lynn
I was thinking that if you show them that if you contribute to the community then you get the Rockstar job. lord alone, look at Grant, he gets flown around the world... show them what they can acheive
my old company used to use the phrase "improve your personal brand"
There is a little more behind how Grant got his position I think. I would love to have a job like his, not that I don't like mine because I do. I am starting to ramp up my job search at this time, initially looking to see what may be available in house first. My current position is funded through May 31st. After that, who knows.
I am pretty sure if I have to leave my current employer I will end up taking a pay cut. We'll have to see how that all works if it happens.
If you are wondering why I am going to be looking it is because of contract changes and my company didn't win a couple key contracts this last round. We will be transitioning some of our work to another company as a result. That is the world of government contracting.
December 9, 2019 at 3:51 pm
MVDBA (Mike Vessey) wrote:Lynn
I was thinking that if you show them that if you contribute to the community then you get the Rockstar job. lord alone, look at Grant, he gets flown around the world... show them what they can acheive
my old company used to use the phrase "improve your personal brand"
There is a little more behind how Grant got his position I think. I would love to have a job like his, not that I don't like mine because I do. I am starting to ramp up my job search at this time, initially looking to see what may be available in house first. My current position is funded through May 31st. After that, who knows.
I am pretty sure if I have to leave my current employer I will end up taking a pay cut. We'll have to see how that all works if it happens.
If you are wondering why I am going to be looking it is because of contract changes and my company didn't win a couple key contracts this last round. We will be transitioning some of our work to another company as a result. That is the world of government contracting.
the pay cut thing is not fun, i had to quit my job while having both ankles operated on.. i had to move in with my parents while whey healed (i couldn't walk) - i took the first job i could get and i'm on 50% less than i was a year ago. it's mainly because the area i had to move to is an old mining town and traditionally has paid below market rate
MVDBA
December 9, 2019 at 3:53 pm
I am starting to ramp up my job search at this time, initially looking to see what may be available in house first.
This is something I'm going to be doing in the new year, but for different reasons. I've very much hit a glass ceiling here, and so it's time to move on (plus I became a property owner a couple of years ago, and cost of living going up and wages no, something has to give there too).
Honestly, I've no idea how to prepare right now or how to start in the new year with searching. My current employer is where I started working with SQL Server and I haven't written a CV in well over a decade (and that was a Retail based CV, certainly not IT or a specific product). This is going to be something that is very new to me. Hopefully things go well, and I can find somewhere nice to fit in and also dig my teeth into (I miss having challenges at the office to problem solve).
Hope no one minds if I probably ask for some pointers into the New Year. Think first step is likely finding a recruiter that understands the industry, and then getting a few CV templates done?
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
December 9, 2019 at 3:56 pm
As long as you're all going for "jobs like mine" and not my job. I'm not done with it yet.
As to pay cuts. A long time ago (and let's hope it remains that way), I was laid off when the company I was at failed (not my fault). It happened the week before 9/11. I was out of work for three months. Showing up at head hunters and seeing the same people over and over, all of us about the same age, all of us about the same skill set. It was horrifying. I finally got an offer that was considerably lower than my previous job. I jumped on it. When I accepted, there was some question from the company about why I'd take such a huge pay cut. Then I explained, it wasn't a pay cut. I've been out of work for three months. It was an enormous raise. Took five years to get back to where I was in terms of pay. No fun.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
December 9, 2019 at 4:00 pm
Lynn Pettis wrote:I am starting to ramp up my job search at this time, initially looking to see what may be available in house first.
This is something I'm going to be doing in the new year, but for different reasons. I've very much hit a glass ceiling here, and so it's time to move on (plus I became a property owner a couple of years ago, and cost of living going up and wages no, something has to give there too).
Honestly, I've no idea how to prepare right now or how to start in the new year with searching. My current employer is where I started working with SQL Server and I haven't written a CV in well over a decade (and that was a Retail based CV, certainly not IT or a specific product). This is going to be something that is very new to me. Hopefully things go well, and I can find somewhere nice to fit in and also dig my teeth into (I miss having challenges at the office to problem solve).
Hope no one minds if I probably ask for some pointers into the New Year. Think first step is likely finding a recruiter that understands the industry, and then getting a few CV templates done?
wherever you go , as a dba there will always be a glass ceiling. especially if you are the only DBA.
MVDBA
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