Are the posted questions getting worse?
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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
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If its a fish, why are the solutions still working? Shouldn't they only have lasted the extent of a single meal?
Sorry to jump in at this late point, but I think that in large part depends on your definition of "working". Is a cursor going to work? Sure. Is it going to be the best solution? Probably not. (Emphasis on probably.) I drove my Pathfinder into the ground, but I certainly don't regret trading it in for a Prius. Continually learning the best way to achieve a task is essential to maintaining a good, long career. The cursor might work right now, but I've seen giving that answer in an interview cost people jobs.
I think thats a fair assessment. Its really up to SO on that one. I'm not even going to discount Seans original point except to point out that he probably wasn't the moderator on that one. As I said, if I would have answered, I would have added something like "... and watch for performance issues" or something brief. I guess folks want all or nothing, but given the benefits I get from SO, I'm not so inflexible.
I was not a moderator of that discussion. Obviously I find some usefulness out of that site or I would not have bothered to setup an account there. I have received countless "fish" from there. I thought it might be a good place to give back to the community at large by working on helping a few people learn to fish. I got shot down in flames by the community there. Then I came here and voiced my frustration that they don't want to learn over there. That is a difference of the two. No more, no less. In the future I won't bother to offer better solutions there, I will just point out that they may not be the best. If that person wants to learn how to do it better I will help them but I am not going to put as much effort into responses there as I do here.
I for one would prefer you stick around. You have a lot to offer and it is always good to have a different viewpoint on certain things. By all means don't let this discussion taint your perception of this site or the fine people who offer so much of the own time to keep it going.
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/ -
Evil Kraig F (7/30/2014)
Good grief, guys. Hey Patrick, welcome to "the Swamp", grab a martini if the still's running.This debate is going for... four pages now? I personally don't care about SO. Occasionally they cough up something useful via google for a five year old thread and I haven't found the place inviting the few times I tried to head over there to participate. That works for me. I can start with what they answered and bring it over here for clarification and cleanup if I can't do it myself.
Yep, the debate really went on, thus my questioning of even replying it. It never hurts to check!
I however don't worry about that so much. You made a comment earlier that you hope certain people don't read our comments in here about them. There is a reason we use initials or descriptors instead of direct names. Well, except for Celko, may his internet personality burn, and I've told him as much directly.
This I did want to touch on, in every instance like that I've seen, I successfully identified the poster being discussed.
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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
This I did want to touch on, in every instance like that I've seen, I successfully identified the poster being discussed.If you're there at that moment, and the threads are active, yes, they're easier to determine. Wait a few days and you wouldn't know the difference when I'm venting about K the always right vs. K the incompetent. 😀
If they have something to say, they're welcome to jump in and explain themselves if they do figure it out, either via PM or here. The point being there's a few hundred K's on the site, and our vents are unsearchable without context of time. Since the majority of people can't data mine the SSC forums efficiently, I'm not too worried about that.
- Craig FarrellNever stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
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Evil Kraig F (7/30/2014)
If you're there at that moment, and the threads are active, yes, they're easier to determine. Wait a few days and you wouldn't know the difference when I'm venting about K the always right vs. K the incompetent. 😀
You forgot K the Benevolent, K the Evil, K the GoldFish:-D
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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Evil Kraig F (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
This I did want to touch on, in every instance like that I've seen, I successfully identified the poster being discussed.If you're there at that moment, and the threads are active, yes, they're easier to determine. Wait a few days and you wouldn't know the difference when I'm venting about K the always right vs. K the incompetent. 😀
If they have something to say, they're welcome to jump in and explain themselves if they do figure it out, either via PM or here. The point being there's a few hundred K's on the site, and our vents are unsearchable without context of time. Since the majority of people can't data mine the SSC forums efficiently, I'm not too worried about that.
Just wished it didn't happen because of how easy they are to find, I'm certainly not "data mining" thats for sure.
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Grant Fritchey (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Then whats the problem with defending SO?I wasn't aware there was one. Someone offered an opinion. You disagreed. Others disagreed with you. Etc.
I think the implication came about because you mentioned that you were specifically curious why it was so important to me to defend SO, and that you were also moderating your behavior strictly in reply to my posts.
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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Just wished it didn't happen because of how easy they are to find, I'm certainly not "data mining" thats for sure.Didn't mean to imply you were. It's more the employer looks over their name a year from now kind of data mining that I'd be more concerned about. I EXPECT someone who's active on the forums to know EXACTLY who I'm speaking about with context. That's the point.
It won't stop, at least not from me, however. I can either do a short vent here and get it out of my system with some commiserations and then return to the thread with a more polite and relaxed frame of mind, or I can chew on them in public. I find the vent to be more satisfying long term. There's a few of them I directly PM if I find them particularly thickheaded about being an ***, but usually it's just head-desking over newbies or people wanting to be spoon fed.
- Craig FarrellNever stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA -
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
If its a fish, why are the solutions still working? Shouldn't they only have lasted the extent of a single meal?Yeah, there is a big difference between systems that are just "working" and systems that are great and efficient.
I have seen a lot of SSIS packages who are build just like in the most basic tutorials and they take minutes/hours to process some data. A little rewriting and set-based thinking usually gets the execution time to a few seconds.
Need an answer? No, you need a question
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jcrawf02 (7/29/2014)
[Been reading through Michael's lengthy post and comments, only to find yours Steve. I think his main problem is that SO is focused on *only* providing fish, where SSC provides the fish (Ask.SSC.com), the learning to fish (forum help - thanks to you guys, and assuming you avoid those people that learned how to clean fish with a mallet (have the picture saved for every project meeting ever, btw)), case studies (articles) plus bonus pointage from daily questions.Plus, there's checks and balances in that you're all active in yelling each other down and avoiding too much of a pile-on most of the time.
Can't be all things to all people, but you're giving it a pretty damn good try
Thanks, we are trying. There are things I'd like to improve, and I think SO does some things well, but overall I prefer the discussion format here. I'm somewhat embarrassed to rarely be on Ask.SSC.com, but it's not really my style.
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Anyway, if this SO discussion is going to endure any longer, we will reach 45,000 posts real quick 😀
Need an answer? No, you need a question
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Koen Verbeeck (7/30/2014)
Anyway, if this SO discussion is going to endure any longer, we will reach 45,000 posts real quick 😀No kidding. I sure opened a can of worms I wasn't expecting.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/ -
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Evil Kraig F (7/30/2014)
Good grief, guys. Hey Patrick, welcome to "the Swamp", grab a martini if the still's running.This debate is going for... four pages now? I personally don't care about SO. Occasionally they cough up something useful via google for a five year old thread and I haven't found the place inviting the few times I tried to head over there to participate. That works for me. I can start with what they answered and bring it over here for clarification and cleanup if I can't do it myself.
Yep, the debate really went on, thus my questioning of even replying it. It never hurts to check!
We reply because we care 😀
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
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Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/30/2014)
Anyway, if this SO discussion is going to endure any longer, we will reach 45,000 posts real quick 😀No kidding. I sure opened a can of worms I wasn't expecting.
No wonder they were sold out this evening:-D
😎
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Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
It should be noted as well, that sometimes people come to SSC and ask question(s) and then actually get upset when we try to show them better ways to accomplish a task. I have personally been berated by a few OPs for not JUST answering the question.Or for asking additional questions trying to get additional details.
Perhaps there's something here? Maybe an auto move of the question to Ask.SSC?
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
It should be noted as well, that sometimes people come to SSC and ask question(s) and then actually get upset when we try to show them better ways to accomplish a task. I have personally been berated by a few OPs for not JUST answering the question.Or for asking additional questions trying to get additional details.
Perhaps there's something here? Maybe an auto move of the question to Ask.SSC?
It is a challenge as sometimes the question itself is wrong with no appropriate/correct answer, such as "where do I find the pixy dust that turns SQL Server 2014 into SQL Server 2012?"
Don't think there is any favour in transferring those to Ask.SSC
😎
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