April 2, 2012 at 8:28 am
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Greg Edwards-268690 (3/29/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Just spent time in a meeting being reminded that people using the same terms do not always mean the same thing. Interesting effect that has on a project.I can't really talk about the discussion, but here's a database metaphor as an example: "A" and "a" really aren't the same thing.
<headdesk>
On my SQL server, they are pretty much the same.
That's part of my point. Case insensitivity doesn't mean that a=A. It means that SQL ignores the difference between the two.
If someone says "a" in a conversation, did I really hear "a"? Or did I hear "A"? Or maybe even I heard "eh". Even taking into account the tonal differences and emphasis people put on a word or a letter, I still can hear something different from what they are thinking they mean when the say it.
Embarrassing example: When I was at a Junior High dance, my fellow students started chanting to the cover band, calling for a specific type of music. I didn't listen to music, so I what I heard was "oreo." Could not figure out what cookies had to do with the school dance, but whatever. Turns out they wanted to hear "REO" covers (as in "REO Speedwagon").
Well, today, I find out that A <> a and what I thought I agreed to in yesterday's meeting was not at all what other people agreed to.
" Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. "
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
April 2, 2012 at 9:04 am
jcrawf02 (4/2/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Greg Edwards-268690 (3/29/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Just spent time in a meeting being reminded that people using the same terms do not always mean the same thing. Interesting effect that has on a project.I can't really talk about the discussion, but here's a database metaphor as an example: "A" and "a" really aren't the same thing.
<headdesk>
On my SQL server, they are pretty much the same.
That's part of my point. Case insensitivity doesn't mean that a=A. It means that SQL ignores the difference between the two.
If someone says "a" in a conversation, did I really hear "a"? Or did I hear "A"? Or maybe even I heard "eh". Even taking into account the tonal differences and emphasis people put on a word or a letter, I still can hear something different from what they are thinking they mean when the say it.
Embarrassing example: When I was at a Junior High dance, my fellow students started chanting to the cover band, calling for a specific type of music. I didn't listen to music, so I what I heard was "oreo." Could not figure out what cookies had to do with the school dance, but whatever. Turns out they wanted to hear "REO" covers (as in "REO Speedwagon").
Well, today, I find out that A <> a and what I thought I agreed to in yesterday's meeting was not at all what other people agreed to.
" Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. "
Sound like some buffalo s@*$
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 2, 2012 at 12:50 pm
SQLRNNR (4/2/2012)
jcrawf02 (4/2/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Greg Edwards-268690 (3/29/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Just spent time in a meeting being reminded that people using the same terms do not always mean the same thing. Interesting effect that has on a project.I can't really talk about the discussion, but here's a database metaphor as an example: "A" and "a" really aren't the same thing.
<headdesk>
On my SQL server, they are pretty much the same.
That's part of my point. Case insensitivity doesn't mean that a=A. It means that SQL ignores the difference between the two.
If someone says "a" in a conversation, did I really hear "a"? Or did I hear "A"? Or maybe even I heard "eh". Even taking into account the tonal differences and emphasis people put on a word or a letter, I still can hear something different from what they are thinking they mean when the say it.
Embarrassing example: When I was at a Junior High dance, my fellow students started chanting to the cover band, calling for a specific type of music. I didn't listen to music, so I what I heard was "oreo." Could not figure out what cookies had to do with the school dance, but whatever. Turns out they wanted to hear "REO" covers (as in "REO Speedwagon").
Well, today, I find out that A <> a and what I thought I agreed to in yesterday's meeting was not at all what other people agreed to.
" Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. "
Sound like some buffalo s@*$
that happens alot here at my work. normally goes like this, "hey can we do this really general thing? me: Yes BUT, then a week goes by and they come back and go "We need x and last week you said you could do it. me: that falls in the BUT part of my answer. them: "you said you could so make it happen"
love those
For performance Issues see how we like them posted here: How to Post Performance Problems - Gail Shaw[/url]
Need to Split some strings? Jeff Moden's DelimitedSplit8K[/url]
Jeff Moden's Cross tab and Pivots Part 1[/url]
Jeff Moden's Cross tab and Pivots Part 2[/url]
April 2, 2012 at 12:53 pm
capn.hector (4/2/2012)
SQLRNNR (4/2/2012)
jcrawf02 (4/2/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Greg Edwards-268690 (3/29/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (3/29/2012)
Just spent time in a meeting being reminded that people using the same terms do not always mean the same thing. Interesting effect that has on a project.I can't really talk about the discussion, but here's a database metaphor as an example: "A" and "a" really aren't the same thing.
<headdesk>
On my SQL server, they are pretty much the same.
That's part of my point. Case insensitivity doesn't mean that a=A. It means that SQL ignores the difference between the two.
If someone says "a" in a conversation, did I really hear "a"? Or did I hear "A"? Or maybe even I heard "eh". Even taking into account the tonal differences and emphasis people put on a word or a letter, I still can hear something different from what they are thinking they mean when the say it.
Embarrassing example: When I was at a Junior High dance, my fellow students started chanting to the cover band, calling for a specific type of music. I didn't listen to music, so I what I heard was "oreo." Could not figure out what cookies had to do with the school dance, but whatever. Turns out they wanted to hear "REO" covers (as in "REO Speedwagon").
Well, today, I find out that A <> a and what I thought I agreed to in yesterday's meeting was not at all what other people agreed to.
" Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. "
Sound like some buffalo s@*$
that happens alot here at my work. normally goes like this, "hey can we do this really general thing? me: Yes BUT, then a week goes by and they come back and go "We need x and last week you said you could do it. me: that falls in the BUT part of my answer. them: "you said you could so make it happen"
love those
They only get me once that way. After that: "Sure, right after you email me with exactly what you want with a cc to our bosses and/or a third party witness to this conversation."
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 2, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 2, 2012 at 1:18 pm
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
A cup of coffee the next time you two see each other. 😉
April 2, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Lynn Pettis (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
A cup of coffee the next time you two see each other. 😉
Two cookies and a pint of beer. 🙂
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 2, 2012 at 1:39 pm
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 2, 2012 at 1:44 pm
GSquared (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
I think we should convert "points" to "pints" and stand on Redgate's lawn with kegs and everyone gets a free one for each point.
Only condition: You have to drink them all that day.
Put up about 5000 whiteboards and see what comes out of a drunken mass of DBAs.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 2, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Evil Kraig F (4/2/2012)
GSquared (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
I think we should convert "points" to "pints" and stand on Redgate's lawn with kegs and everyone gets a free one for each point.
Only condition: You have to drink them all that day.
Put up about 5000 whiteboards and see what comes out of a drunken mass of DBAs.
Besides several of us dying of alcohol-toxicity: http://xkcd.com/323/
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 2, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Evil Kraig F (4/2/2012)
GSquared (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
I think we should convert "points" to "pints" and stand on Redgate's lawn with kegs and everyone gets a free one for each point.
Only condition: You have to drink them all that day.
Put up about 5000 whiteboards and see what comes out of a drunken mass of DBAs.
AUI, meaning Administering Under Influence.
April 2, 2012 at 2:08 pm
GSquared (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (4/2/2012)
GSquared (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
I think we should convert "points" to "pints" and stand on Redgate's lawn with kegs and everyone gets a free one for each point.
Only condition: You have to drink them all that day.
Put up about 5000 whiteboards and see what comes out of a drunken mass of DBAs.
Besides several of us dying of alcohol-toxicity: http://xkcd.com/323/
Windows ME :hehe:
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 2, 2012 at 2:15 pm
GSquared (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (4/2/2012)
GSquared (4/2/2012)
GilaMonster (4/2/2012)
Evil Kraig F (3/30/2012)
GilaMonster (3/30/2012)
I read the end of that and I am not getting involved...Initial gut feel - improper transaction management (leaves transactions open) combined with connection pooling. Connection gets discarded from pool and data that should have been committed and was thought committed suddenly vanishes.
If so, they'll see open transactions from the DMVs, possible log growth and locking (unless everything's running with nolock). It's a code problem, SQL doesn't just discard data randomly and if it was corruption they would know about it (connections getting closed with sev 24 errors)
Makes sense and was another possibility I'd thought of, but I don't have the front end app experience to help them directly or to even confirm that's the malfunction.
So... What do I win?
At least one more "point" on SSC.
I think we should convert "points" to "pints" and stand on Redgate's lawn with kegs and everyone gets a free one for each point.
Only condition: You have to drink them all that day.
Put up about 5000 whiteboards and see what comes out of a drunken mass of DBAs.
Besides several of us dying of alcohol-toxicity: http://xkcd.com/323/
I suspect the ideas would be good near the beginning and terrible near the end. The execution of the ideas - well, it would be better near the end than near the beginning, because at the end we'd be failing to execute terrible ideas instead of failing to execute good ones.
Anyway, it's all an evil plot by Craig to kill off the top point scorers - anyone with more than about 5000 points - so that he can climb to the top of the league.
Tom
April 2, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Pints from Red Gate is a good idea, but at the rate I drink it would take me 5000 days to achieve alcohol toxicity.
April 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/2/2012)
Pints from Red Gate is a good idea, but at the rate I drink it would take me 5000 days to achieve alcohol toxicity.
I will gladly help you handle that volume. That we we could halve the time.
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