Why Be an MCP?

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Why Be an MCP?

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Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 1

Are there specific MCP certifications you would suggestion for someone who may be interested in the MCDBA or MCSA or MCSD tracks? Thanks

When you go down MCDBA road and successfully finish one of the required exams, you are already a MCP.

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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Felipe Dalorzo SSC Enthusiast Points: 135 More actions · Answer 2

I agree with netmikem,

You don't have to see certifications as titles but as knowledge that help you out in your work. Titles are a side effect.

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 3

Actually I think Bryant has it already mentioned (Paper tigers). The fact that you sucessfully completed the exams, does *not* really prove your knowledge. It only demonstrates your ability to learn the required stuff the Microsoft way. Nothing more.

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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 734449 More actions · Answer 4

Ah, but Frank, it also proves you care something about your career to invest time in it. That may be the most important thing.

Andy Leonard put it well on the first page above. It may hurt more than help. At many companies of any size, they require it because the managers and HR people have been conditioned to think it's required or they want an easy way to sift through a batch of resumes. The may not read your resume if you aren't certified and just file it in their circular file. When I was hired at JD Edwards, I got past this even though I didn't have my MCDBA, however I don't know how many other companies never called me because of that.

As far as my MCSE goes, my employer at the time paid for the tests and some books and I studied my arse off to pass each test. They also paid for transcenders. I sat in on the Active Directory design class for that exam, but thought it was a waste of my time. I'm not as good a classroom learner as I am from books.

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 5

Ah, but Frank, it also proves you care something about your career to invest time in it. That may be the most important thing.

Steve, this is of course something a real professional should strive for. With or without certification. However, having such a piece of paper is something you can show immediately, while your knowledge and experience takes some time to shine through.

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

netmikem SSCarpal Tunnel Points: 4001 More actions · Answer 6

I really can't agree with the 'paper tiger' argument against certification.

Sure there are people out there like this (i.e. lots of certifcations but not much real world experience) but a good employer should be able to determine this from a resume and interview.

There is something to be said for a professional who can't get experience with a product (or part of a product) but goes ahead and gets certified in it anyway because they want to learn about it. If that person is honest about their lack of actual experience with the tool, I don't see the problem with this approach.

fhanlon SSChampion Points: 13131 More actions · Answer 7

I know for a fact that my MCDBA contributed to 2 different jobs. I didn't take any courses, Just experience, reading books, learning from various web sites like this one. My employer had paid for the exams. I don't think anyone would seriously argue that certifications are the be all and end all. If I was hiring there are just one thing to look at. Experience is definitely a huge factor. But the certification are one thing to throw on the scale when comparing candidates for a position. Even still experience, education and certifications don't comprise everthing that needs to be evaluated when hiring. If a candidate was arrogant, rude or came across as lazy and unmotivated whatever experience and cerifications they have become unimportant.

Francis

Randy_Dyess SSC Eights! Points: 974 More actions · Answer 8

I agree with all the posts that having a MCP, MCSE, or MCDBA does not mean the holder has the knowledge require to do the job. As technical people we need to remember one thing, technical prowness is great and will almost always get you the job and make you a super employee, but you have get the interview in the first place.

Certifications, writing books, writing articles, running a web site, and just plain being seen in the technical world will go a long way in getting your resume past all those HR clerks, admins, managers, and hiring committees. After that, getting the job depends upon your interview skills, technical skills, and experience.

Often very technical people fail to achieve their goals because they do not remember that other corporate people put non-technical skills (education, certifications, communication ability, assoication memberships and offices) on the same level as the ability to do the job. It may not be fair or right, but that is the way it is. My advice to the DBAs I have had the honor to mentor is that you do some things such as certs, authoring, etc. not only to help booster your knowledge but also to help create a resume that will get you in the interview for your next dream job.

PBirch SSCrazy Eights Points: 8493 More actions · Answer 9

I have had most of the major certifications (meaning I like to take multiple choice tests). Do I plan to keep them updated? No. I do not (literally) have the time or inclination to work through the books and study. I found that most of the time the tests emphasized the "new features" rather than the practical uses. Interesting to be exposed to the Microsoft Way, but not essential for everyday work.

Yes, I, too, have met paper experts. My favorite was the MCSE who could not figure out how to change the video resolution after the NT4 installation.

Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 10

After that, getting the job depends upon your interview skills, technical skills, and experience

That's something that hasn't been adressed yet. The soft skills. You might be the best knowing guy around (MCP, MCDBA, SQL Server MVP and so on...), however when you lack social competence or when the feeling between you and the company or the interviewer isn't just right, I doubt you will get the job or hold it for a longer time.

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

hoo-t SSChampion Points: 12713 More actions · Answer 11

I had interviewed for positions in the company I am employed with twice previous to interviewing for my current job. In this company the interview process is multi-tiered, one tier of which is a peer interview. Long after being hired for my current position, one of the people that interviewed me in a peer interview became a member of the team that I am a member of. The subject of that previous interview came up in conversation, and he indicated that I wasn't hired because I "didn't seem interested enough". It was true. I had a job at the time, and didn't NEED to move. The job would have meant a slight cut in pay, and I really wasn't that interested. I didn't knowingly project that, but, somehow it was perceived. Coincidentally, the job that I have now entailed a slight cut in pay, and I didn't NEED a job then, either. However, the job was interesting enough (DBA), that I WAS interested. I guess it showed. I got the job!

Steve

athurgar SSCrazy Points: 2816 More actions · Answer 12

In the past I was required for my job as a trainer to be certified and therefore I have a few of them. For a trainer you need to be certified. I would prefer that it went back to the old days when you had to be certified in a product to teach that product.

Now as a manager who hires DBA's I always look for certifications, if people don't have them I ask if they have thought about certification? I always give people a technical interview/exam to make sure they know there stuff (hopefully avoiding the paper tigers syndrome). To me certification shows some dedication and commitment to get that certification. Then I also give them a personal type interview to make sure that they aren't axe murderers.

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 13

I wonder... Do you think certifications are a bit like degrees? Without experience, you really never learn, but if you can't get the experience because you only have paper, is it paper, rock, scissors?

You made me go back a few years and think about two applicants I dealt with that only had certifications but no real experience. We canned both of them and never considered hiring them. Do you think that was fair? Both were very young, fresh, and eager to get started on their careers.

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

David.Poole SSC Guru Points: 75898 More actions · Answer 14

Old cynic filter input = "Young, fresh, enthusiastic"

Old cynic filter output = "Naive, unjaundiced and cheap"

Yes you should have employed them

LinkedIn Profile

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 15

Thanks, David,

I agree on one of them. He was sharp. Unfortunately, the powers that be, didn't. The other one did have me a bit concerned so, in that case, it was probably a good thing.

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio