February 3, 2015 at 4:26 pm
There seems to have been a spike in career oriented editorials and posts over the past year. I know it's been on my mind a lot lately too.
As for the question about where do senior SQL Server DBAs land, I could see myself doing this in form or another on up until I have one foot in the grave. Even if I won the lottery, I'd still dabble with it just for kicks. I love the occupation, even if I occasionally find myself bored with whatever position I'm in from time to time. What I can tell you is that there is no such thing as a "typical" DBA or developer job. The job description, culture, pay, and satisfaction varies greatly from one organization to another. There are also a lot of positions available out there for senior level database professionals.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 3, 2015 at 4:46 pm
S_Kumar_S (1/28/2015)
"Where do you finally land".
On their feet.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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February 3, 2015 at 4:47 pm
GilaMonster (1/29/2015)
Why do they have to land anywhere?Why is the 'reward' for being very good at your job to be put into a completely different one? Management is a completely different skill set from DBA, someone who's a good DBA is not necessarily going to be a good manager or want to be a good manager.
+1
If you are a good DBA, then why change and do you have to land anywhere else?
If you like it, then why bother with something else.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 4, 2015 at 6:52 am
Ok. Here goes...
[font="Courier New"]1971 Born
1995 Junior Developer for Natural, VMS running on ADABAS
1996 First Contact. SQL Server 6.5 running small databases for our company's Intranet. Software Developer with SQL Windows and Gupta (then Centurasoft and back to Gupta).
1997 Deputy DBA for all (well two servers) SQL Servers at our company. Java Developer, VB Developer, Gupta DBA. Created individual setup routine for Gupta DB installations for affiliates.
1998 Migration of SQL Server 6.5 to SQL Server 7 in my role as deputy DBA.
1998 - 2003 ...additionally IDC Developer, IBM Websphere Developer and DB2 DBA. Contact with PervasiveSQL and DBase.
2003 Switch from Software Developer to Systems Management Team. I wanted to be a full-time DBA (and became responsible for IIS and other stuff)
2004 VMware Initiator for our company
2003 - 2007 IT Systems Manager / DBA IIS (Oracle, SQL Server, Gupta Databases, and other system near applications). SQL Servers at around 40 (mix of SQL Server 2000 and 2005)
2007 - 2011 IT Team Manager for Server Team consisting of Storage, SAN, VMware, AD, SQL Server, Oracle, Exchange, ServiceDesk Application, Retaurus, ...
2011 - current BACK TO THE ROOTS AS DBA. Troubleshooting and Analysing Performance Issues on SQL Servers (160 SQL Servers 2005 up to 2014). Oracle 11g R2, Oracle 11g R4.
[/font]
After all the years I can say that a senior DBA will "land on his feet". A senior DBA will always be a senior DBA. He/she might adapt new skills, new positions and possibly new functions, but the person will always be a senior DBA. 😀
If you're happy with your job. Great!
If you're not happy with your job, change it.
Each individual will reply to your question with individual answers, well because each person is an individual.
That's what makes being a DBA so interesting. No matter what your background is, as soon as you're a (senior) DBA, you are part of a great club. 😉
You'll land wherever you want to land.
You can be whatever you want to be.
I personally prefer being a senior DBA knee-deep in the <insert expletive here>.
John
__________________________________
Searching the KB articles is like
picking your nose. You never know
what you'll find.
February 4, 2015 at 7:07 am
"..on their feet..."
I literally laughed out loud. Good one.
Steve nailed it with tremendous eloquence.
I'd been working "in data" since my days at Fox Software, then Microsoft (laughing again) starting on version 4.21 on OS/2. What matters is being the best co-worker, mentor, mechanic, planner, architect and developer I can be; constantly challenging myself to get better at all of it. ProTip: Senior DBAs are veterans and absolutely do. not. panic. On Lynn's theme, we're the gunnery sergeants and yes, we DO keep the wheels on thank you very much.
I guarantee the constantly changing technology we live by will offer opportunities you hadn't even considered. My current employer is implementing HANA for SAP on SQL Server and an APS appliance for data warehousing and BI. 3 months ago it was just a concept. Now, the hardware is on site and the DBA team is being challenged to "make it work".
Adding one more name to your list of ex-employers is your choice but move for the right reasons. Stay if opportunities present themselves, leave if you're stuck in a dead-end job with no change in sight or getting abused. Like the saying goes: "be careful what you wish for" because being a manager may or may not be what you expect. Managing depends entirely on the culture of the organization - one place may be great while another place may absolutely suck. My experience in managing (hindsight: at one of the not-so-great places) left a sour taste - mgmt showing a distinct lack of class toward direct reports.
Personally, being a DBA is a hobby that I get paid for. Who can ask for more than that?
February 5, 2015 at 9:27 am
Your Name Here (2/4/2015)
... I'd been working "in data" since my days at Fox Software, then Microsoft (laughing again) starting on version 4.21 on OS/2.
Wow. It's possible we did some back and forth in the late '80s, I was doing a lot of Fox development. Loved the product. Then I changed employers and we also were working with 4.21a on OS/2. And DataFlex. Yuck.
While those days were fun, I REALLY prefer today's tools! I would walk out the door if someone forced me to work with something like ObjectView again.
I've worked with SQL since 4.21a, so some 20ish years, but based on personal experience I really don't know what a senior DBA is. Every shop I've worked in I've been solo, and they've been smallish shops even if they might have lots of servers and databases. So by definition, I have been the senior DBA in pretty much all of the positions that I've held. Do I consider myself a senior DBA? No. I'm probably a hybrid DB designer/programmer/DBA and I do pretty good in all three roles. But I'd have to hit the books and do a lot of experimenting to set up HA or a data warehouse.
Landing on my feet? That's another story. I made the conscious decision almost ten years ago when I married my wife that I'd be moving in to a database opportunity desert and I accepted that. She's an astronomer, and computer guy jobs are more portable than telescopes. I later took a job in a city 100 miles away and had an apartment there and we went back to our house in the forest on the weekends, but after my health crashed in '09 I moved back to my wife's house and telecommuted for 3 years. After that, unemployed for two years.
But now I'm doing development again, and I'm happy, and I'm the entire database staff. I'll also be the DBA when the project launches and keeping an eye on the other SQL boxes (accounting and student records and who knows what else) and it's good enough. I'm making an acceptable salary, though much lower than I've made I the past, and I'm OK with that.
So that's the key for me and where I want to land: acceptable salary, low-stress environment, learning a new industry, normally half an hour commute one-way, nice people to work with and good bacon cheeseburgers and Mexican food nearby.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
February 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
I also got my start back in late 80s and early 90s working with FoxPro and dBase on DOS, and later Clipper on OS/2. I thought I could build an app for anything, until Sybase and SQL Server arrived on the scene and expanded my little universe.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 6, 2015 at 7:15 am
I hate sitting in an interview and having the dude ask me the stupid textbook interview question: where do you see yourself in five years? My answer is always: as a DBA.
I've been a team lead, technical lead, and one company (foolishly) made me the director of application development. It sucked. As commented previously, management is a totally different job. I've always called it the "Conceit of Management". That is when a manager, CIO, VP, whatever, assumes that everyone wants to rise to the position of manager, CIO, VP, whatever.
There are so many aspects to being a DBA that you can "land" anywhere. Administrative DBA. Developer DBA. BI DBA. I have actually found it difficult to NOT land somewhere else as my job usually includes finding ways to automate other people's job (hence, learning how to do what they do to the point where I can replace them). I do everything I can these days to not become an "application owner", which is difficult as many companies don't have an owner for the applications they force on their employees.
So, where do you land? Become a different type of DBA. Learn new skills. If you are developing, get a job just doing administrative/support work (you will find yourself developing your own monitoring tools). If your a BI DBA, do more DB development for applications. There are so many different options in the DBA world you can stay a DBA for your entire career and never get bored. Learn Oracle. Companies pay HUGE for SQL/Oracle hybrid DBAs. Get certified. Start a blog and post SQL stuff and become famous in the geek-world.
But, if you're tired of looking at data and rewriting that ETL to shave off 30 seconds is boring you, then get into management and sit in meetings all day listening to end users drone on about the color of buttons on a website you could care less about.
...
February 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
In some organizations, because of the way the pay grades and scales are structured, getting promoted to management is the only way for a senior level IT employee to get a salary increase.
Then a year or two later the organization decides they have one too many managers while being one DBA short, so they layoff the newly minted manager (who never really liked being a manager in the first place), and then hire a new DBA. Personally, I'd rather be the guy who keeps the database server running than be the guy sitting in the corner office, especially when the department is top heavy in terms of managers.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 9, 2015 at 2:08 am
I know where I want to land, but I'm still having to work towards it - into a happy retirement with enough money for a comfortable lifestyle and not having to work for others.
With business changes in the pipeline I'm waiting to see what the future of this job is, or whether I can get paid off to leave it and maybe go contracting and take longer breaks between contracts.
February 24, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Sean Lange (1/29/2015)
Alan.B (1/29/2015)
I am certainly not anywhere at the same DBA skill level as say Jeff, Gail or Sean...Gosh I am humbled to be grouped with those two in such a context. I have never even had a job as a DBA.
I don't know how I missed your reply... I actually meant to say SQL Practitioners not DBA (I know what Jeff does but don't know what you or Gail do). I was grouping you with the people who seem to know/understand SQL better than me and from whom I have learned a great deal since I found SSC 😉
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
February 24, 2015 at 10:23 pm
Jeff Moden (1/29/2015)
Sean Lange (1/29/2015)
Alan.B (1/29/2015)
I am certainly not anywhere at the same DBA skill level as say Jeff, Gail or Sean...Gosh I am humbled to be grouped with those two in such a context. I have never even had a job as a DBA.
I don't believe either you or Alan give yourselves enough credit. I've interviewed a whole lot of people in the last 3 years and only one out of more than a dozen people claiming "more than 10 years experience" as a DBA could hold a candle to either of you two.
Geeeeez! I can't believe I missed this comment. Thanks so much Jeff this made my day. :blush:
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
February 24, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Sean Lange (1/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (1/30/2015)
Sean Lange (1/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (1/29/2015)
Sean Lange (1/29/2015)
Alan.B (1/29/2015)
I am certainly not anywhere at the same DBA skill level as say Jeff, Gail or Sean...Gosh I am humbled to be grouped with those two in such a context. I have never even had a job as a DBA.
I don't believe either you or Alan give yourselves enough credit. I've interviewed a whole lot of people in the last 3 years and only one out of more than a dozen people claiming "more than 10 years experience" as a DBA could hold a candle to either of you two.
I would fail miserably as a DBA currently. I have no knowledge or experience with any of the administration tasks. As a sql developer I would be totally confident.
I don't believe you would fail as a DBA. You might start off a bit slow because you've not done it before but the same attitude that made you a good SQL Developer would make you a good DBA. If you were suddenly thrown into the position as the only DBA at a company, you would hunker down, find out what you needed to know, and then do what is needed to be done because that's your nature. Your knowledge of T-SQL would make getting up to speed a whole lot easier. You'd make an outstanding "Hybrid DBA".
You'd also have the advantage of having been a strong SQL Developer and would, therefor, be able to mentor and guide Developers (database or front end). I've not found many DBAs in my area of the country than can or would do that.
I have considered trying to switch to a purely sql based job but my lack of experience makes it difficult. I have not seen any listings for a sql developer position around here. The other challenge is I don't want to move and need flexibility in scheduling due to my involvement with coaching kids sports and scouts. I also make a good salary and live just more than 10 minutes from work. In short, I love the idea of working in a more sql centric environment but have no real interest in leaving the company I work for. 😉
This will be my last comment today on this thread (it appears I accidentally unsubscribed to this thread back awhile back). First, ditto everything Jeff said. I got my first DBA job in 2009 and can say I knew less about Microsoft SQL Server than you do now (not just T-SQL but SQL Server). If you lived in Chicago (where do you live?) you could get a job doing anything you want that has to do with MS SQL Server. Not that being a DBA is all about T-SQL but to give you some perspective - part of my job is interviewing DBAs and SQL developers and over the past say 4-5 years I have only interviewed 1 person who could tell me what OUTER APPLY does. You understand indexes, data modeling and <I could go on> better than anyone I have ever interviewed and 99% of the people I have worked with. The stuff you don't know you could just come here (SSC) for.
Many of the people who spend time on SSC (you included) are the Creme dela creme of the Creme dela creme IMHO and you have been here for a long time.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
February 25, 2015 at 7:19 am
Alan.B (2/24/2015)
Sean Lange (1/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (1/30/2015)
Sean Lange (1/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (1/29/2015)
Sean Lange (1/29/2015)
Alan.B (1/29/2015)
I am certainly not anywhere at the same DBA skill level as say Jeff, Gail or Sean...Gosh I am humbled to be grouped with those two in such a context. I have never even had a job as a DBA.
I don't believe either you or Alan give yourselves enough credit. I've interviewed a whole lot of people in the last 3 years and only one out of more than a dozen people claiming "more than 10 years experience" as a DBA could hold a candle to either of you two.
I would fail miserably as a DBA currently. I have no knowledge or experience with any of the administration tasks. As a sql developer I would be totally confident.
I don't believe you would fail as a DBA. You might start off a bit slow because you've not done it before but the same attitude that made you a good SQL Developer would make you a good DBA. If you were suddenly thrown into the position as the only DBA at a company, you would hunker down, find out what you needed to know, and then do what is needed to be done because that's your nature. Your knowledge of T-SQL would make getting up to speed a whole lot easier. You'd make an outstanding "Hybrid DBA".
You'd also have the advantage of having been a strong SQL Developer and would, therefor, be able to mentor and guide Developers (database or front end). I've not found many DBAs in my area of the country than can or would do that.
I have considered trying to switch to a purely sql based job but my lack of experience makes it difficult. I have not seen any listings for a sql developer position around here. The other challenge is I don't want to move and need flexibility in scheduling due to my involvement with coaching kids sports and scouts. I also make a good salary and live just more than 10 minutes from work. In short, I love the idea of working in a more sql centric environment but have no real interest in leaving the company I work for. 😉
This will be my last comment today on this thread (it appears I accidentally unsubscribed to this thread back awhile back). First, ditto everything Jeff said. I got my first DBA job in 2009 and can say I knew less about Microsoft SQL Server than you do now (not just T-SQL but SQL Server). If you lived in Chicago (where do you live?) you could get a job doing anything you want that has to do with MS SQL Server. Not that being a DBA is all about T-SQL but to give you some perspective - part of my job is interviewing DBAs and SQL developers and over the past say 4-5 years I have only interviewed 1 person who could tell me what OUTER APPLY does. You understand indexes, data modeling and <I could go on> better than anyone I have ever interviewed and 99% of the people I have worked with. The stuff you don't know you could just come here (SSC) for.
Many of the people who spend time on SSC (you included) are the Creme dela creme of the Creme dela creme IMHO and you have been here for a long time.
Thanks for the kind words Alan. If I ever have a crappy day I will just come back and read this thread. 😛
To answer your previous bit, I am in Kansas City and work as a full time web developer primarily on an ecommerce site.
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Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
February 26, 2015 at 3:24 am
I could well land up stacking shelves in a supermarket. Somewhere warm, not too demanding...
I used to be a DBA on DB2, then moved to SQL Server.
Back in 2007 I got a job as a Database Architect, probably the best job I ever had, which took me to retirement at the end of last year.
I now have a 1-day per week job as SQL DBA with a charity, it is a privilege to be using my skills to help them deliver a top quality service.
Maybe in a few years I'll move (hopefully not get pushed) out of computing and if supermarkets still let the public in rather than deliver everything to the door, then shelf stacking awaits.
But all of this could be summarised by SQLRNNRs suggestion - DBAs will land on their feet.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
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