July 29, 2010 at 12:30 pm
TravisDBA (7/29/2010)
In the later, yes, the money is flowing out of our economy to the foreign economy.
And the latter as you state, is the off-shoring of American jobs, and that is what I feel is contributing to the current ills of our economy. It is not the only thing wrong with our terrible economy nowadays, but it is a contributing factor and it needs to end.:-D
Thank you for only answering one aspect of my previous post. My entire post also addressed a comment from where you objected to people working here who also sent money abroad to family.
July 29, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Lynn Pettis (7/29/2010)
TravisDBA (7/29/2010)
In the later, yes, the money is flowing out of our economy to the foreign economy.
And the latter as you state, is the off-shoring of American jobs, and that is what I feel is contributing to the current ills of our economy. It is not the only thing wrong with our terrible economy nowadays, but it is a contributing factor and it needs to end.:-D
Thank you for only answering one aspect of my previous post. My entire post also addressed a comment from where you objected to people working here who also sent money abroad to family.
I also feel that people working here in the US from abroad that do not spend money at our businesses do not help our economy, as I stated in a previous post. Arjun, an Indian himself, actually agreed with me on this point. By his own admission they are stingy here in the US.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 1:53 pm
TravisDBA (7/29/2010)
Lynn Pettis (7/29/2010)
TravisDBA (7/29/2010)
In the later, yes, the money is flowing out of our economy to the foreign economy.
And the latter as you state, is the off-shoring of American jobs, and that is what I feel is contributing to the current ills of our economy. It is not the only thing wrong with our terrible economy nowadays, but it is a contributing factor and it needs to end.:-D
Thank you for only answering one aspect of my previous post. My entire post also addressed a comment from where you objected to people working here who also sent money abroad to family.
I also feel that people working here in the US from abroad that do not spend money at our businesses do not help our economy, as I stated in a previous post. Arjun, an Indian himself, actually agreed with me on this point. By his own admission they are stingy here in the US.:-D
Sorry to disagree, but if a foreign national is working and living here, they have to be putting money back into the community (read economy) even if they are also sending money back home. If they are "stingy" and actually saving the money here, then even better. Perhaps we all should get "stingy" and start saving more rather than spending everything we earn and then some. A "Biblical Principle" would be to save 20% of what we earn during the good times so that we would have funds available when things get tight.
Arjun is not living and working in the US, so no, what he earns stays where he lives, except when he buys things from US companies.
July 29, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Only 2 that have implemented SOX where I was directly involved with compliance/processes. The requirements around SOX and PCI are vague in some areas and open to interpretation. I guess it depends on who your auditing firm is. Some auditors give you more leeway than others. I've never heard that blanket statement of job-sharing being off limits. For smaller companies it's pretty common...
July 30, 2010 at 7:10 am
LSCIV (7/29/2010)
Only 2 that have implemented SOX where I was directly involved with compliance/processes. The requirements around SOX and PCI are vague in some areas and open to interpretation. I guess it depends on who your auditing firm is. Some auditors give you more leeway than others. I've never heard that blanket statement of job-sharing being off limits. For smaller companies it's pretty common...
Sar-Box compliance has defitnite standards on job descriptions. You might want to check into it further. There is a lot of information out there on it.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 30, 2010 at 8:16 am
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Sar-Box compliance has defitnite standards on job descriptions. You might want to check into it further. There is a lot of information out there on it.:-D
Minor point - but if you're going to abbreviate the law that way, shouldn't it be Sarb-Ox?
--Andrew
July 30, 2010 at 8:46 am
Andrew in WV (7/30/2010)
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Sar-Box compliance has defitnite standards on job descriptions. You might want to check into it further. There is a lot of information out there on it.:-DMinor point - but if you're going to abbreviate the law that way, shouldn't it be Sarb-Ox?
SarBox is the abbreviation, look it up. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 30, 2010 at 9:01 am
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Andrew in WV (7/30/2010)
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Sar-Box compliance has defitnite standards on job descriptions. You might want to check into it further. There is a lot of information out there on it.:-DMinor point - but if you're going to abbreviate the law that way, shouldn't it be Sarb-Ox?
SarBox is the abbreviation, look it up. 😀
I have seen "Sarbox", "SarbOx", "Sarb-Ox" and "SOX", but until now I have not seen "SarBox". I just figured that since it was named after Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D–MD) and Rep. Michael G. Oxley (R–OH), not "Boxley".
😉
--Andrew
July 30, 2010 at 9:20 am
Andrew in WV (7/30/2010)
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Andrew in WV (7/30/2010)
TravisDBA (7/30/2010)
Sar-Box compliance has defitnite standards on job descriptions. You might want to check into it further. There is a lot of information out there on it.:-DMinor point - but if you're going to abbreviate the law that way, shouldn't it be Sarb-Ox?
SarBox is the abbreviation, look it up. 😀
I have seen "Sarbox", "SarbOx", "Sarb-Ox" and "SOX", but until now I have not seen "SarBox". I just figured that since it was named after Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D–MD) and Rep. Michael G. Oxley (R–OH), not "Boxley".
😉
Ok, if you want to split hairs, then "Sarbox" instead of "SarBox".:crazy:
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 30, 2010 at 9:30 am
This was one of the best editorials I've seen in a long, long time. The quality of the products delivered by offshore development IS poor. Thats not to say because of the quality of the people doing the work. The real problems lie with communication hurdles, time differences for meetings, and lack of clear, adequate documentation sent to the offshore teams. American business thinks offshore development is cheap because they don't track all the time for such an effort. The time for U.S. techncial and non-technical staff to document requirements and high level design is hardly tracked.
American developers need to focus on the level of quality development they bring to the table. If you are in IT because of a big paycheck or you want to leave at 5PM then you're in the wrong career. Developers need to study their craft and deliver zero-defect applications because what YOU deliver is a reflection of YOUR self-worth.
When I started in IT 28 years ago, it was just a job. Today it all moves too fast; so either get tough and study on your own time so you can succeed or let your job get offshored. Developers should deliver software with a level of quality that management second-guesses the need for testing teams. If American business is built on idea of crush-the-competition, and you are an american software developer, then treat offshore as the competition...and crush the competition.
July 30, 2010 at 10:27 am
vbscripter (7/30/2010)
This was one of the best editorials I've seen in a long, long time. The quality of the products delivered by offshore development IS poor. Thats not to say because of the quality of the people doing the work. The real problems lie with communication hurdles, time differences for meetings, and lack of clear, adequate documentation sent to the offshore teams. American business thinks offshore development is cheap because they don't track all the time for such an effort. The time for U.S. techncial and non-technical staff to document requirements and high level design is hardly tracked.American developers need to focus on the level of quality development they bring to the table. If you are in IT because of a big paycheck or you want to leave at 5PM then you're in the wrong career. Developers need to study their craft and deliver zero-defect applications because what YOU deliver is a reflection of YOUR self-worth.
When I started in IT 28 years ago, it was just a job. Today it all moves too fast; so either get tough and study on your own time so you can succeed or let your job get offshored. Developers should deliver software with a level of quality that management second-guesses the need for testing teams. If American business is built on idea of crush-the-competition, and you are an american software developer, then treat offshore as the competition...and crush the competition.
I could not agree more, This is one of the most informed/unbiased responses to off-shoring of jobs that I have read. However. much more needs to be done to end off-shoring than just concentrating on U.S. quality control of development. Yes, that is an issue that contributes to this, but ending incentives and tax breaks also need to be enforced on companies that do this through new federal laws to begin a movement or moratorium on the off-shoring of American jobs, We in the US can be the greatest developers in the world but we just cannot compete with foreign workers who will work virtually around the clock for $5000-10000 a year, and American companies will continually use them until they are forced not too. Regardless of the quality of our software development here in the US. Because they only care about their bottom line, period.. It is a major contributing factor that is breaking the back of our American work force and it needs to be stopped. President Obama will hopefully institute this as law before the end of his first term. Great post though. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 31, 2010 at 8:40 am
One final note on this issue to bring it home to all American workers. I over estimated their income in my previous post. It's much lower than that. The median monthly income in India is about 4500 Rupees which equates to about $97.00 a month in US dollars. The top fifth of the nation earn about 9000 Rupees a month which equates to about $194.00 a month in US currency. In the US a 3 member family needs a minimum of $1100 monthly income. Any income less than that would mark that family as poor. But in India if your family income was $1100 a month, you would be rich. Now, I ask all you American workers, How can we compete with that? It's no wonder that American companies are attracted to that kind of dirt cheap labor. Even if we put out the best quality software in the world we still could not even come close to competing with that kind of labor cost. I can understand why Arjun said that most Indians are "stingy". If I made that kind of money a month I would be stingy too. India, even though it has experienced impressive economic growth in recent decades, it still contains the largest concentration of poor people in the world and American companies are exploiting that, IMHO:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 1, 2010 at 2:25 am
Travis, you should be more careful when you comment about things you are not sure of. I donno where you have got all these info from. Anyway as i said i'm not gonna comment anymore on the topic. And 'most indians are stingy' and 'indians are stingy' are two very different statements. It's really sad that you posted it as my opinion.
- arjun
https://sqlroadie.com/
August 1, 2010 at 9:49 am
Arjun Sivadasan (8/1/2010)
Travis, you should be more careful when you comment about things you are not sure of. I donno where you have got all these info from. Anyway as i said i'm not gonna comment anymore on the topic. And 'most indians are stingy' and 'indians are stingy' are two very different statements. It's really sad that you posted it as my opinion.- arjun
My Info came straight from the Internet and from associates who have been to India (Wikipedia and others) I can give you the sources if you desire. I corrected my previous statement to "most Indians" as you stated. I meant no offense to you. I should have quoted you completely and I have corrected that previous post, but I stand by my other information:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 9, 2010 at 10:24 am
Pro or Con: Here are some terms and recent news to consider.
The generic terms "outsourcing" and "offshoring" are very confusing and used by different groups for different meanings. Google "H1" or "H1-B" visa - the articles are much more specific.
The H1 (a.k.a. H1B or H1-B or H1-C, L1, ... Visa) program for example gives US companies tax and other incentives to bring a worker from overseas to the US to directly replace US worker.
In a very generic nutshell: Lay off US Workers, import a H1B worker and save money once the wage and government incentives are combined. The numbers of H1B visas in the US wildly range from 100,000 to 600,000 depending on who is asked. Again, all of this adds to the confusion.
ComputerWorld Very Timely News:
In the Article:
-Congress is now considering raising the fee to get more revenue, not removing the process.
-The Administration does not want H1B fees raised.
It is not a simple debate. And, the lack of using specific terms and numbers just adds to the confusion.
Just as an FYI:
If posts are considered "Anti-H1B", there is a possibility that the web site can be shut down by the government. So, when discussing such things, please be careful and polite. We need SQL Server Central to stay on-line.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9143559/Court_shut_down_of_H_1B_sites_deeply_dangerous_
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