March 31, 2016 at 9:00 am
Where I am now, there is an on-call rotation for DBA team members. If you're on-call for current week, then you're the primary contact for production support issues during or after normal work hours. We're exempt from OT, but we do get plenty of Comp Time. Accounting for Comp Time, the hours actually worked weekly are irregular, but if you average out for a month, it's not much more than 40 per week, if any. I think that's a more rational way of dealing with after hours support work, but of course you must have sufficient staff to have rotation and also cover when someone uses a Comp Time day.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 31, 2016 at 10:11 am
Many years ago I worked for a company as a computer operator (paid OT) where you were paid one hour straight time for every 4 hours you wore a pager outside normal work hours. If you got a call, you went on the clock. Unfortunately, the programmers that were on call only got comp time if called outside normal work hours.
March 31, 2016 at 10:28 am
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2016)
Many years ago I worked for a company as a computer operator (paid OT) where you were paid one hour straight time for every 4 hours you wore a pager outside normal work hours. If you got a call, you went on the clock. Unfortunately, the programmers that were on call only got comp time if called outside normal work hours.
ROFLMAO! My last gig I was on the pager rotation (everyone on the pager was salaried) and we got zip: no OT, no comp, no other time off. The ridiculous thing was that it was for mainframe problems, and I had zero access to nor knowledge about our mainframe, so I'd have to call someone else if something barfed. It was a blatant violation of labor law, and they got away with it for years. Their pager rules, along with other rules violations, meant that we should all have been paid hourly with OT available. HR/payroll was either ignorant or just ignored it.
When we were on-call we had to stay within 15 minutes of the office.
The sad thing was that the 'pager' was a cell phone, and until I was put on the rotation no one had figured out that they could forward that pager to their personal cell phone when their 'on the pager' week began and avoid carrying two phones.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
March 31, 2016 at 12:12 pm
Wayne West (3/31/2016)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2016)
Many years ago I worked for a company as a computer operator (paid OT) where you were paid one hour straight time for every 4 hours you wore a pager outside normal work hours. If you got a call, you went on the clock. Unfortunately, the programmers that were on call only got comp time if called outside normal work hours.ROFLMAO! My last gig I was on the pager rotation (everyone on the pager was salaried) and we got zip: no OT, no comp, no other time off.
I've been there too. No pay or time off for carrying the cell phone, but woe betide you if you went to the market on Saturday morning and someone called.
Leonard
Madison, WI
March 31, 2016 at 12:22 pm
Wayne West (3/31/2016)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2016)
Many years ago I worked for a company as a computer operator (paid OT) where you were paid one hour straight time for every 4 hours you wore a pager outside normal work hours. If you got a call, you went on the clock. Unfortunately, the programmers that were on call only got comp time if called outside normal work hours.ROFLMAO! My last gig I was on the pager rotation (everyone on the pager was salaried) and we got zip: no OT, no comp, no other time off. The ridiculous thing was that it was for mainframe problems, and I had zero access to nor knowledge about our mainframe, so I'd have to call someone else if something barfed. It was a blatant violation of labor law, and they got away with it for years. Their pager rules, along with other rules violations, meant that we should all have been paid hourly with OT available. HR/payroll was either ignorant or just ignored it.
When we were on-call we had to stay within 15 minutes of the office.
The sad thing was that the 'pager' was a cell phone, and until I was put on the rotation no one had figured out that they could forward that pager to their personal cell phone when their 'on the pager' week began and avoid carrying two phones.
From some of the readings I have done recently, that restriction on distance from the office should have put you on the clock.
On another note, while working at a different employer with a on-call rotation, my supervisor went to bat for me when I was first on-call and didn't answer my pager call while officiating a youth soccer game or in church. Plus, at the time we actually had a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person on call.
April 1, 2016 at 12:20 am
Michael Valentine Jones (12/3/2011)
The worst abuse is when they set short project deadlines without any attempt to match the workload to the available staff, and then expect people to work extremely long hours to meet the deadline...
There are some places that run like this release to release. It is a surefire way to cause burnout in your staff and to encourage poor staff retention as people leave because they cannot maintain their energy and productivity levels.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 1, 2016 at 12:33 am
sqlnyc (12/6/2011)
...what is known as a "professional day". In case this is foreign to you, this most unprofessional of concepts means that as a consultant, you do not get paid for all the hours you work...
In the UK the trend seems to have pushed freelancers away from hourly rates to daily rates defined as a "professional day". This once was specified as working the hours to perform a scheduled day's work i.e. you work until that days work is done be it more or less than the standard day. Nowadays this is usually specified as the standard day plus any extra work deemed necessary by the client. I don't see this as fair and usually ensure that any abuse is compensated for (no, I am not walking of with a printer when this happens).
I am happy to give but it must be a two way street.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 1, 2016 at 12:57 am
iposner (1/3/2012)
...Some countries (like the UK) have clauses where an employee can contract out of its provisions...
Employees can't but freelancers can. The good thing is that most HR departments are fearful that extreme abuse of freelancers by making them work much more than allowed for employees over a sustained period would leave them open to legal claims. Basically, it has ensured a more reasonable culture which protects employees from being abused without draconian restrictions for freelancers.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 5, 2016 at 7:00 am
When listening to new coworkers talk about why they left their previous job, a common theme is escaping stress and overtime. They probably won't mention it as a motivation during the interview, because they don't want to appear like a slacker in front of a new employer, but I think it's one of the prime drivers behind churn in the industry.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 5, 2016 at 12:11 pm
I've been an exempt employee for many years. My initial salaried job was for a Giant Entity, where I was in a pay band with non-exempt coworkers. Due to my experience and knowledge, my base pay was slight higher, but for quite a while and barring a special project, OT was sporadic at best, and even then paid at straight time.
What did that mean? It meant that during most crunch times I'd be working 50 hrs/wk along with the non-exempt coworkers, but I'd be paid for 40 hours while they were paid for 55. That slightly higher base pay didn't come close to cover those extra 15 hours pay, and the more experienced and knowledgeable person was paid less. The three of us in that situation banded together and basically stated we would be working 40 hour weeks (maybe a few extra hours), and that was it. The bosses did offer straight time OT more frequently, and we worked it as needed.
On a slightly related subject - that Giant Entity was taking advantage of consultants from overseas who would come work onsite for 6-12 months. We (U.S. employees of that Giant Entity) were instructed to tell the onsite consultants that, if something was needed next month, we needed it next week. Need it next week? Tell them we need it tomorrow. "They take great pride in their work and will work extra time to get it done" was the exact quote from an IT manager. What that IT manager didn't say was that we could drive these folks to work 60 hours or more and it wouldn't cost us a single penny. (But one consultant who took off a half hour early one Friday to go to Disney World was docked a half hour's pay for leaving early, even though he had worked 10 hours/day Monday-Thursday.) I never pulled that stunt - if something was needed next month, I told them it was needed next month.
Some unethical businesses and managers try the same stunts with salaried employees, and I hope the recent and pending labor classification changes help alleviate the damage to some employees.
April 5, 2016 at 1:36 pm
You just do the job to keep food on the table and a roof over your head. If you are abused get another job. If you can't then do the best you can. Just know that whatever noise you make might end up ending your job.
April 5, 2016 at 2:06 pm
Iwas Bornready (4/5/2016)
You just do the job to keep food on the table and a roof over your head. If you are abused get another job. If you can't then do the best you can. Just know that whatever noise you make might end up ending your job.
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Some people say an old DBA is made outta MUD
But I say a poor DBA´s made outta muscle and blood ... :Whistling:
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A back that´s a-weak and a mind that´s strong ... :Whistling:
You load sixteen tables, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt ... :Whistling:
Saint Peter don´t you call me ´cause I can´t go
I owe my soul to the company store ... :crying:
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"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 5, 2016 at 2:11 pm
🙂
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 6, 2016 at 2:35 am
If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta tables died
One fist holds the mouse, the other on the keys
If the right one don't fix it
The left writes the queries
(Apologies to Tennessee Ernie Ford, best I could do before more coffee)
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