September 16, 2015 at 2:14 pm
I remember punch cards, also paper tape. While in High School I loved taking the chads to the High School football games and using them like confetti. Others around us didn't like it, hard to get of their hair.
I used to take those little donut hole confetti and put them in envelopes and mail them to people so that when they opened them they had a mess on their clothes, desk, floor, etc.
September 16, 2015 at 2:17 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
September 16, 2015 at 2:19 pm
I asked several important questions. Your failure to answer them if I was looking to you to provide me with a turn-key solution
Lynn you asked if I was running for political office.
Do you mean for President? Or do you mean as Donald Trump's running mate?
I would consider running for Vice President with him.
September 16, 2015 at 2:20 pm
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
September 16, 2015 at 2:21 pm
erichansen1836 (9/16/2015)
I asked several important questions. Your failure to answer them if I was looking to you to provide me with a turn-key solution
Lynn you asked if I was running for political office.
Do you mean for President? Or do you mean as Donald Trump's running mate?
I would consider running for Vice President with him.
No, I was simply calling you a politician for avoiding answering my questions.
September 16, 2015 at 2:51 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
Ok, what do your developers do that they don't write code and deal with intricacies?
September 16, 2015 at 2:53 pm
erichansen1836 (9/16/2015)
I asked several important questions. Your failure to answer them if I was looking to you to provide me with a turn-key solution
Lynn you asked if I was running for political office.
Do you mean for President? Or do you mean as Donald Trump's running mate?
I would consider running for Vice President with him.
I think Lynn was wondering who supports the app you developped should you leave? I also think that any local development shares this problem, although certainly your methodologies would add some overhead supportwise with this consideration.
September 16, 2015 at 3:23 pm
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
Ok, what do your developers do that they don't write code and deal with intricacies?
Different intricacies. We don't have to worry writing code dealing with the direct access of the data, or where the data is physically stored. SQL Server manages all of that for us so we can focus on writing applications that meet the users needs and requirements. Microsoft supports the actual storage and access of the data. They worry about the optimizer that determines how best to access the data, providing the necessary locking to provide ACID properties for updates, inserts, and deletes, the ability to take backups and do restores to provide point in time recovery of data when needed.
I have to worry about establishing the proper indexing, writing scalable and performant T-SQL code, establishing the proper backup procedures to meet user RPO/RTO requirements, and such things.
September 16, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Whether a Jet based database will scale up to 1 TB depends on how exactly you are partitioning and the case usage of how the users are querying it. Jet isn't client-server, it's file server, there is no server component, so every single table and index page read must be pulled across the network wire to the user's PC to be computed.
Maybe an indexed sequential access database like this will scale up to 1 TB if all it's getting is simple bookmark lookups. But let's assume instead there are millions of sales records, and you do something like the following:
select Year(SalesDate)Period, Region, sum(SalePrice * Quantity)TotalSales
from Sales
group by Year(SalesDate), Region;
or just something like this:
select count(*) from Sales;
With a client/server database like SQL Server, you send it a SQL query, it does the work server side against a 50 or 500 GB page cache, and then it sends the client back a tabular resultset. That's the power of upsizing to SQL Server.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 16, 2015 at 3:35 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
Ok, what do your developers do that they don't write code and deal with intricacies?
Different intricacies. We don't have to worry writing code dealing with the direct access of the data, or where the data is physically stored. SQL Server manages all of that for us so we can focus on writing applications that meet the users needs and requirements. Microsoft supports the actual storage and access of the data. They worry about the optimizer that determines how best to access the data, providing the necessary locking to provide ACID properties for updates, inserts, and deletes, the ability to take backups and do restores to provide point in time recovery of data when needed.
I have to worry about establishing the proper indexing, writing scalable and performant T-SQL code, establishing the proper backup procedures to meet user RPO/RTO requirements, and such things.
The point I was trying to lean to is that the OP already has plenty of intricacies by virtue of doing the app, I'm not entirely sure of what he's doing, but once you get into a custom app, you get to code and support intricacies even with a standard database interface.
However, I do agree he has a bigger load, and once you start combining the less travelled technologies, you narrow down support options, and like you, I would be curious what he thinks of his companies prospects should he leave.
September 16, 2015 at 4:08 pm
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
Ok, what do your developers do that they don't write code and deal with intricacies?
Different intricacies. We don't have to worry writing code dealing with the direct access of the data, or where the data is physically stored. SQL Server manages all of that for us so we can focus on writing applications that meet the users needs and requirements. Microsoft supports the actual storage and access of the data. They worry about the optimizer that determines how best to access the data, providing the necessary locking to provide ACID properties for updates, inserts, and deletes, the ability to take backups and do restores to provide point in time recovery of data when needed.
I have to worry about establishing the proper indexing, writing scalable and performant T-SQL code, establishing the proper backup procedures to meet user RPO/RTO requirements, and such things.
The point I was trying to lean to is that the OP already has plenty of intricacies by virtue of doing the app, I'm not entirely sure of what he's doing, but once you get into a custom app, you get to code and support intricacies even with a standard database interface.
However, I do agree he has a bigger load, and once you start combining the less travelled technologies, you narrow down support options, and like you, I would be curious what he thinks of his companies prospects should he leave.
And my point is that if I leave my employer can hire another SQL Server professional to fill my position. What they lose in my institutional knowledge will be learned by my replacement over time, but they will already have the necessary knowledge of SQL Server itself that they will be able support the database system.
September 16, 2015 at 7:28 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/16/2015)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (9/16/2015)
Lynn Pettis (9/15/2015)
Answer me this, who is going to maintain your work when you are no longer around to do so? Are you training others to provide support? Do you expect others to pick up Garry's book and continue on?
Me personally, I'd walk away for any company using your database system. I have no desire to learn how to code and support the intricacies that are taken care of for me by SQL Server/Oracle/PostgreSQL/MySQL/Name your commercial RDBMS. I'll learn what I need to know about the internals to maximize performance, but I don't want to dive into and write the code.
Out of curiousity, what do you do your application screens in that you don't have to dive into and write the code?
Where I work, I deal with the database. We have developers that work on the front end applications. I don't need to know what the front end does, I just need to know what data it needs based on the inputs provided by the user/application.
Ok, what do your developers do that they don't write code and deal with intricacies?
Different intricacies. We don't have to worry writing code dealing with the direct access of the data, or where the data is physically stored. SQL Server manages all of that for us so we can focus on writing applications that meet the users needs and requirements. Microsoft supports the actual storage and access of the data. They worry about the optimizer that determines how best to access the data, providing the necessary locking to provide ACID properties for updates, inserts, and deletes, the ability to take backups and do restores to provide point in time recovery of data when needed.
I have to worry about establishing the proper indexing, writing scalable and performant T-SQL code, establishing the proper backup procedures to meet user RPO/RTO requirements, and such things.
The point I was trying to lean to is that the OP already has plenty of intricacies by virtue of doing the app, I'm not entirely sure of what he's doing, but once you get into a custom app, you get to code and support intricacies even with a standard database interface.
However, I do agree he has a bigger load, and once you start combining the less travelled technologies, you narrow down support options, and like you, I would be curious what he thinks of his companies prospects should he leave.
And my point is that if I leave my employer can hire another SQL Server professional to fill my position. What they lose in my institutional knowledge will be learned by my replacement over time, but they will already have the necessary knowledge of SQL Server itself that they will be able support the database system.
I agree with that. In OP's case, the developer carries the costs of the database maintenance, and he loses the benefits of a server based system. He has a bigger workload, no query planner, any queries across multiple files will look funny etc..
But no matter what, they'll need to hire someone with development skills, and I'm a little concerned with the jet/perl combo, and obviously the split mdb's add to the fun. It is a custom app after all.
September 17, 2015 at 8:43 am
I think Lynn was wondering who supports the app you developped should you leave? I also think that any local development shares this problem, although certainly your methodologies would add some overhead supportwise with this consideration.
For Joint Database Technology, any Perl developer could easily take over.
For Reduction Database Technology any ODBC developer could easily take over.
And the database administration is so simple that you don't need to have a highly trained DBA on hand.
The Developer(s) can do it themselves, or pass it off to Operations Manager or Staff, or even a semi-techical person such as a Dept Head in Accouting or Marketing. On my last job, the company Accounting Dept Head was the company's IT hardware/networking person as well. Who is going to take over those duties when they leave?
September 17, 2015 at 8:50 am
erichansen1836 (9/17/2015)
I think Lynn was wondering who supports the app you developped should you leave? I also think that any local development shares this problem, although certainly your methodologies would add some overhead supportwise with this consideration.
For Joint Database Technology, any Perl developer could easily take over.
For Reduction Database Technology any ODBC developer could easily take over.
And the database administration is so simple that you don't need to have a highly trained DBA on hand.
The Developer(s) can do it themselves, or pass it off to Operations Manager or Staff, or even a semi-techical person such as a Dept Head in Accouting or Marketing. On my last job, the company Accounting Dept Head was the company's IT hardware/networking person as well. Who is going to take over those duties when they leave?
Riddle me this, why do you refuse to answer the questions I have asked you? Are you afraid of the answers that you may to give? Are you actually a politician disguised as an IT professional?
You have failed to provide any straight forward answers to any of the questions I asked.
September 17, 2015 at 8:57 am
any queries across multiple files will look funny etc..
What? The below is what I would do with Jet Engine and perhaps SQL Server as well
Select * from Parent
Foreach Parent Row
Process Parent Row
Select * from Child
Foreach Child Row
Process Child Row
End Foreach Child
End Foreach Parent
Back in mid 1990s, I worked on a National Service Center database (Informix Dynamic Server) as the lead Informix 4GL/UNIX developer for one company in the insurance industry. We started getting complaints from customer service reps that their lookups to customer records were taking too long, and they could not do their job over the phone with customers.
I went into every source code file we had in the repository and changed the SQL statements to look like the above instead of how they looked which was like the below:
Select * from Parent, Child
Foreach Parent/Child
Process Parent with assoc. Children
End Foreach
What happened was that the Child table had become isolated on a separate hard drive or perhaps had become split so that part of it was on one hard drive and part on another, or perhaps the Child table had become split across database partitions on the same disk? I don't know how that works? Either the DBA goofed, or else there is an inherent risk with SERVER style databases that tables can become sufficiently isolated from one another that joining them in an SQL statement reduces efficiency 10 fold.
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