November 2, 2010 at 8:20 am
The Internet has spawned a whole generation of lazy techs that inadvertently follow this flowchart:
(BTW, a regularly brilliant and funny comic)
I wonder what they'd do with the "orange wall" of VAX/VMS v4 manuals...
Rich
November 2, 2010 at 8:37 am
I think that the Internet is just one more step along the 'just in time' path. So much of what we've done over the last several thousand years has been to reduce the need for individual stockpiling of anything. There was a time when each family needed to stockpile pretty much all of their own supplies. The Internet is making it possible for society to do with information what society has done for food--centralized storage to which people contribute as they are able and from which each person draws when and as necessary.
In the context of this discussion, it might be useful think of the Internet like a 'grocery chain' for information. I don't have to buy (or grow!) a whole cow to put meat on the table and now with the Internet, I don't have to buy (or write) the whole book (or multi-volume set!) to get the job done. As with produce, I can be reasonably sure that 'the system' will keep me supplied with fresh (i.e. new) information as it becomes available, no matter where that information was produced or who produced it. As with meat, I can select from the finest cuts, the most cost-effective cuts, and the easiest to prepare. I can get exactly what I want or need exactly when I want or need it.
Are there risks? Certainly. Are we losing something? Probably. There are risks associated with not keeping our own gardens and livestock and we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but overall our food delivery system provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual. There are risks associated with becoming dependent on the Internet and there too we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but I'd argue that it provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual.
November 2, 2010 at 8:41 am
I rarely (and I mean RARELY) use bookmarks/favorites. Not using bookmarks forces me to keep a sharp "search" ability. I've always felt my memory was bad and leaning on the Internet to look up everything has made my memory even worse. My memory is so bad, I routinely find myself looking up definitions for certain words that I've already looked up (sometimes more than three or four times!) Back when it was a pain to go get the dictiionary and leaf through the pages, I made an effort to actually remember that word but today I feel I just don't have the time or resources to mess with it...besides, it's just a couple of keystrokes away, right? For me, I feel like the day I start using bookmarks is the day I'll lose my ability to search and then I'll be completely lost if my drive fails and my backups are bad.
November 2, 2010 at 8:55 am
Prior to the internet, I spent a lot of time browsing programming books, reading science fiction paperbacks, but mostly working in the garage or riding my bike. Actually, I still still do a lot of that even with the internet, because, with the exception of NetFlix and personal browsing on weekend mornings, I prefer to take a break from interfacing with computer when I'm away from work. I yearn for the day when computers are invisible, just dutifully performing their jobs like servants in the backgorund without demanding our attention, spamming us, or requireing us to stay "plugged in".
When it comes to computers, we're still in the stone ages. Just like in that movie "Quest For Fire", where one designated member of the tribe was tasked with carrying around a lit torch in order to keep the fire burning. For them, fire was something magical and state or the art that required specialized skills to maintain, but today we take it for granted.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 2, 2010 at 9:06 am
What I truly do not understand is the need to be connected constantly in one's life. I view it as a kind of mass societal mental disease. There are few places to go where one is not surrounded by people on devices. People would rather text than talk. That is sad.
November 2, 2010 at 9:21 am
OCTom (11/2/2010)
What I truly do not understand is the need to be connected constantly in one's life. I view it as a kind of mass societal mental disease. There are few places to go where one is not surrounded by people on devices. People would rather text than talk. That is sad.
Perhaps it is sad, but I don't think that it's a new impulse. I've known many people over the years that seem incapable of just not talking. Driving somewhere, sharing a meal, sitting on beach; talk talk talk talk talk. I've often wondered if there was something about being with other people that turned on a vocalization of their stream of consciousness. I've also often wondered how they coped with being alone. Among my acquaintances it looks to me like there is a pretty close one-to-one mapping between 'speech addiction' and 'text addiction'.
November 2, 2010 at 9:22 am
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
I think that the Internet is just one more step along the 'just in time' path. So much of what we've done over the last several thousand years has been to reduce the need for individual stockpiling of anything. There was a time when each family needed to stockpile pretty much all of their own supplies. The Internet is making it possible for society to do with information what society has done for food--centralized storage to which people contribute as they are able and from which each person draws when and as necessary.In the context of this discussion, it might be useful think of the Internet like a 'grocery chain' for information. I don't have to buy (or grow!) a whole cow to put meat on the table and now with the Internet, I don't have to buy (or write) the whole book (or multi-volume set!) to get the job done. As with produce, I can be reasonably sure that 'the system' will keep me supplied with fresh (i.e. new) information as it becomes available, no matter where that information was produced or who produced it. As with meat, I can select from the finest cuts, the most cost-effective cuts, and the easiest to prepare. I can get exactly what I want or need exactly when I want or need it.
Are there risks? Certainly. Are we losing something? Probably. There are risks associated with not keeping our own gardens and livestock and we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but overall our food delivery system provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual. There are risks associated with becoming dependent on the Internet and there too we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but I'd argue that it provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual.
A fine, fine comment. I actually feel better having read it, but unfortunatley it's that risk you mention that I never thought about until it actually looked me in the face. Living in Ohio, we don't see a lot of natural disasters. In 2008, Hurricane Ike plowed through Texas and continued to make his way all the way up through the south and the mid-west wreaking havoc across many states. When he got to Ohio he was still sustaining 60MPH winds. Electricity was out in huge areas and word was quickly spreading that it could be up to 2 weeks or longer for some to get electric back. I remember going to the store to get some supplies to prepare for the worst. By the time I went to all the surrounding stores in the area (2 had power, 4 or 5 did not and therefore weren't open), everyone else had already been there. There was no batteries, no candles (except for some really bad smelling ones), no lamp oil, no generators, no flashlights, and no canned or dry foods. When the system fails, it fails big. Fortunately, a mere 22 hours after it all started, my section of town got its power back. During that time though, I realized I never thoroughly understood how dependant I was on electricity and the food supply chain. I'm not a hunter or a fisher so I'd have to learn really quick in a crisis (or start learning now in preperation). As for the Internet, I've never really considered what might happen in a time of crisis. My memory sucks (see previous post) and I'm absolutely dependant on it for my survival in the workplace. The writing is on the wall, I need to start hunting and fishing and stockpiling some canned goods, but I also need to plan for a network disaster and how it will affect my life (specifically, my job).
November 2, 2010 at 9:25 am
This whole discussion reminds me of the good old days when there was no such thing as writing and people had to rely on their ability to memorize vast amounts of visual and oral data.
Yeah, Socrates used to lament that young men were learning to read and write, because it was ruining their ability to memorize.
Of course, the reason we know that is because someone wrote it down. Hence, nobody knows the name of the guy who used to lament that young people were learning this new fangled "speaking", because it was ruining their ability to imitate animal noises or something, because nobody memorized it (that hadn't been invented yet) and definitely nobody wrote it down.
Knowledge has been redefined so many times in human history, and every time, there are drawbacks to the "new way to know things", but the "new ways" that become "the old ways" have more advantages than disadvantages. You just have to keep the parts of the old ways that are necessary. Internet isn't very useful if you can't read.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 2, 2010 at 9:48 am
thisisfutile (11/2/2010)
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
------snip-----------
Are there risks? Certainly. Are we losing something? Probably. There are risks associated with not keeping our own gardens and livestock and we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but overall our food delivery system provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual. There are risks associated with becoming dependent on the Internet and there too we lose a specific kind of self-sufficiency, but I'd argue that it provides a massive net benefit to both society and the individual.
A fine, fine comment. I actually feel better having read it, but unfortunatley it's that risk you mention that I never thought about until it actually looked me in the face. Living in Ohio, we don't see a lot of natural disasters. In 2008, Hurricane Ike plowed through Texas and continued to make his way all the way up through the south and the mid-west wreaking havoc across many states. When he got to Ohio he was still sustaining 60MPH winds. Electricity was out in huge areas and word was quickly spreading that it could be up to 2 weeks or longer for some to get electric back. I remember going to the store to get some supplies to prepare for the worst. By the time I went to all the surrounding stores in the area (2 had power, 4 or 5 did not and therefore weren't open), everyone else had already been there. There was no batteries, no candles (except for some really bad smelling ones), no lamp oil, no generators, no flashlights, and no canned or dry foods. When the system fails, it fails big. Fortunately, a mere 22 hours after it all started, my section of town got its power back. During that time though, I realized I never thoroughly understood how dependant I was on electricity and the food supply chain. I'm not a hunter or a fisher so I'd have to learn really quick in a crisis (or start learning now in preperation). As for the Internet, I've never really considered what might happen in a time of crisis. My memory sucks (see previous post) and I'm absolutely dependant on it for my survival in the workplace. The writing is on the wall, I need to start hunting and fishing and stockpiling some canned goods, but I also need to plan for a network disaster and how it will affect my life (specifically, my job).
Yes, there are things we can do to mitigate the risks. In the case of food and water, most Emergency Measures Organizations recommend keeping about 3 days of water and don't even mention food. You probably don't need 2 weeks worth of water because within a few days other sources will kick in and most of us already have a week or so worth of food that could easily be stretched longer. I wouldn't worry about learning to hunt or fish for personal security reasons, because that implies a total breakdown of everything. That is so massively unlikely (for US and Canada, anyway) that there seems to be little point preparing for it. Of course, that is easy for me to say. I'm planning to move to our cabin full time and what it takes just to live there means I can easily survive total breakdown for at least 1 year and I've got great hunting and fishing on my doorstep 🙂
So, any ideas on how to prepare for the risks associated with the loss of Internet? Personally, I take the same view as with basic survival. Just like I can safely go completely without food for a week, going without Internet for a week won't kill me. A month would be well beyond inconvenient, but still not life or livelihood threatening (Internet, not food!). Anything longer is so incredibly unlikely that I don't see much point in worrying about it.
November 2, 2010 at 10:46 am
Oft times I find that the Internet is a reminder of items that I don't know. However, I am glad that there is a community of users that can share all of this knowledge. We all benefit.
If I did not have the Internet, I would be at a severe disadvantage on many levels!
Regards, Irish
November 2, 2010 at 11:00 am
You can't even pick up your own modem, but make your wife do it? Geez...
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 2, 2010 at 11:05 am
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
... most Emergency Measures Organizations recommend keeping about 3 days of water
A germaine aside to water reserves - if for whatever reason water is no longer flowing to your house don't forget you have anywhere from 50 -100 gallons of water in your water heater.
<><
Livin' down on the cube farm. Left, left, then a right.
November 2, 2010 at 11:33 am
This topic has been on my mind since my last vacation where I was in Europe with difficulty in connecting to the net. It brought home how much I rely on it for everyday common information not just technology. I found my self agitated and frustrated that "knowledge" was not at my fingertips. I believe it does promote some degree of laziness but then maybe we never really tried to keep so much information in our heads. There was a time when I could be an expert on a product or technology because it required a finite amount of knowledge. That doesn't exist anymore.
I have to say I was shocked and almost embarrassed at my reaction. From a person with a previous, "back to the woods" pride to "what do you mean you don't have wifi". Maybe I'm just getting old.
November 2, 2010 at 11:42 am
Tobar (11/2/2010)
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
... most Emergency Measures Organizations recommend keeping about 3 days of waterA germaine aside to water reserves - if for whatever reason water is no longer flowing to your house don't forget you have anywhere from 50 -100 gallons of water in your water heater.
People in apartments or with demand heaters will have much less. People with flush toilets will have a couple of gallons assuming they manage to not flush the one time that flushing actually works.
November 2, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
Tobar (11/2/2010)
Ron Porter (11/2/2010)
... most Emergency Measures Organizations recommend keeping about 3 days of waterA germaine aside to water reserves - if for whatever reason water is no longer flowing to your house don't forget you have anywhere from 50 -100 gallons of water in your water heater.
People in apartments or with demand heaters will have much less. People with flush toilets will have a couple of gallons assuming they manage to not flush the one time that flushing actually works.
Well, screw the city folk with their fancy tankless water heaters and low flow toilets. 😛
In the even of a total collapse of civilization, drinkable water and canned beans will be worth more for barter than gold coins.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 45 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply