Green Machines
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"I believe BioDiesel is primarily a corn based product as well."
Soybean is a huge player in the biodiesel market but i believe any veg oil beginning crop would work, depends on cost, viability and speed i guess.
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Even if the hybrid were made halfway around the world, the shipping is just another line item in the final cost. That logic is kind of like saying it's silly to buy a GM car because you have to pay for their healthcare benefits (which probably add a lot more to the car's price than shipping a Toyota).
Every article I read says hybrids are "sexy," but a diesel car is much more cost-effective and gets about the same energy efficiency.
To get a gallon of ethanol from corn requires about 2/3 gallon of gasoline for growing and processing it. Not a big win. Sugar cane is lots better (about 1/8 gallon of gas), but the U.S. can't grow much sugar cane. (But that's why Brazil is doing great with ethanol.) Don't know the figure for soybeans.
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Thanks for all the comments and info. The Jetta Diesel is now on my list as well. I think those are built in Mexico
It's interesting to see the way people look at this. I think that shipping cars halfway around the world is a waste of energy. Though more and more companies are building closer to the final market, at least in the US, which is good. I know that corn requires gas to produce ethanol, but isn't part of that offset as food production as well? It's not straight fuel for fuel, is it? Plus couldn't tractors be altered to run off ethanol or biodiesel?
I used to have a 240D and that turned me off diesels, but there are some good arguments here to look again.
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OK, I'm confused. I did some checking on fuel ratings at the EPA site and they have the Jetta and Golf diesels as around 40MPG for diesel, which is less than the Prius, but close. However their rating for EPA Air is the worst it can be, a 1 of 10? Are diesels that much worse for the air? The Prius rates an 8-9 and air pollution is an issue in the Denver area since we're a zone like LA that traps smog.
Not sure about overseas or anywhere else, but in Denver Diesel costs as much as regular gasoline.
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Not sure if this is a bug or not, but, I've had a couple posts now that didn't go through. It seems to happen when I start a longer post, and then get busy at work, and don't get to finish it for an hour or so. It then flips back to the blank 'Your reply:' screen, and loses my post... I'm guessing my session's timing out or something expected, but, it can be a pain when I don't remember to save a copy just in case... (it just did it again, luckily I had a copy saved)
A bit was lost in the diesel discussion, and also in the EPA ratings. A lot of the discussion has centered on BioDiesel, which is different then diesel. BioDiesel is to Diesel what ethanol is to unleaded. It’s a replacement that has minimal impact on how things are currently done, except it doesn't use fossil fuels.
The perspective is when you use BioDiesel, it can't put much more carbon into the atmosphere then the plants it's made from took out. (Let’s ignore the discussion of petroleum based fertilizers for now). Also, if I understand the basics completely, you can't run a car on pure ethanol, whereas you can run a car on pure biodiesel.
Really, Ethanol/Biodiesel/other combustion replacement all amount to short term solutions to deal with supply. They give us an option when the wells run dry, but, they don't do anything to reverse the emissions spiral we're in, only stabilize it a bit. Long term, we need Hydrogen, either from ethanol conversion, solar power, or some other generation method.
Of course, there's no denying one of the best things about diesel... When you go cross country in the winter, and sleep in your diesel vehicle, you can run the engine, and heat all night, and it seems like you barely touch the gas tank... do the same thing with unleaded, and you'll burn up the tank...
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Diesel in the UK is around 95p per litre and petrol is around 92p.
I've just filled a 50 litre tank of diesel and expect to do around 600 miles on that tank as a matter of course.
I've had various petrol cars and the very best that I ever achieved was 500 miles on a 50 litre tank, typically 450 miles was the average.
Petrol engines are least efficient over the first 10-15 miles.
Diesels aren't that bad for the air but they do spit out tiny carbon particles called PM10s. These are so small that they can easily get past the mucus membranes in the nose and throat and down into the lungs. I can only assume that this is where the bad air theory comes from.
James Dyson did demonstrate a cyclone exhaust system that would remove all solids from the exhaust in exactly the same way that his vacumn cleaner works however there was little commercial interest in this.
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I'm still not sold on hybrids as I don't do any city driving. If your silly enough to drive in a city and not bike or take mass transit, then the hybrid makes sense. However, if like me your car is for recreational - highway use alone, then hybrids are silly. My ford focus wagon - with a few mods (refined air intake, lowered idle speed, removal of roof rack bars, higher pressure in tires) is getting 38-42 mpg. I can get 3 bikes on the back, 4 passengers and all the gear I need for 3 days in this thing. Try that with a hybrid. My father-in-laws hybrid civic is averaging 42 mpg (mostly highway miles) and he has to call me when he needs 2x4's as they fit in my car, but not in his!
On the highway, all the batteries and electric gear, are nothing more than many hundred pounds of dead weight. You would be better off getting a 1 liter engine and getting rid of the electric stuff as you would lose the weight. But off the line your performance would suffer. So what? So I can't do 0-60 in under 10 seconds - when will I ever need to to do that?
If you really want to help the environment try driving less. Take a bus, ride your bike and support better alternatives like hydrogen. And stop requesting cars that can pull 4 tons, when the most you do is get 8 bags of groceries.
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Steve,
Ever follow a diesel bus or truck...see all that black smoke that comes from the exhaust? Plus, diesel engines have to be kept running longer, that's why 18-wheelers leave their engines running all the time.
Hybrids are okay......but I wish I could remember where I read the article about their one big problem - the batteries. They are not recyclable and they are very expensive to replace. They are like any battery, their life-cycle starts when they are first charged - not when they are first used. So a battery that is at the manufacturer's or sitting in the car on the lot is running down already. If you have to spend a few thousand dollars to replace the batteries - is that worth the 'green' savings? What happens if you car is in an accident and the batteries are damaged? They get tossed in a dump and you have to buy new ones or a new car.
-SQLBill
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"Puff of black smoke"
Nearly non existent in a well performing new diesel. The VW PumpDuese Jetta Engine reburns it's exhaust. THis limits the emissions as well as improving mileage. It also however prevents you from wanting to leave it idle for long periods of time (wasting fuel anyways) as it will carbon up the intake. The new diesels need to be looked at as new engines not as the diesels you see on the road in older vehicles or from what you remember. A cousin of my fiance runs their entire farm operation on biodiesel. They love the ROI and there has been much less maintenance on their equipment now.
Go VegOil
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