June 19, 2015 at 7:40 am
I am originally an accidental DBA, by virtue of the fact I was willing to actually try to do SQL work as a Visual Basic programmer and I needed my stored procs/triggers/etc faster than my DBA could get to them lol. I changed jobs in 2006 and I have now been doing basic DBA work (backups, restores, maintenance tasks, etc.) along with SQL coding and web programing for maybe 12 years. The thing is, I have learned to love and embrace SQL because of it's stability (it is a lot the same as it was in 1994!)and I don't wish to get back into programming at all anymore. In short, I would like to commit to SQL Server expert and find new employ doing strictly that along with traveling a lot more.
In short, I want to get Microsoft certified and I have been looking at this place and course to start out on this journey:
https://www.certificationcamps.com/bootcamps/mcsa-sql-2014-certification-9-day-training-boot-camp/[/url]
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these guys or other similar boot camps? I think the best place for me at this point is a boot camp that gets me away from my work, family, and other distractions so that I can zero in on JUST the SQL platform and fill in the many gaps I have. This place is expensive @ $6k, but that does include air fare there and back, hotel, ground transport, 2 meals a day plus in person training and 3 cert tests (and 1 retake for each) along with that so it doesn't seem so bad all in all. I am doing this on my own dime and time because my company probably would pay for it anyway, and even if they did I'd be beholden to them for it which i don't want. I don't have anything against my company at all, but I am a contractor and our contract is coming due and I want my options open.
So what say all you gurus with the fancy letters (MCSA, MCSE, etc...) -- is this a good path to take or are there better ways to get this done in a reasonable amount of time if I am motivated to do so?
June 19, 2015 at 8:14 am
Boot camps are typically designed to get you to pass the exams, not learn the material. They're a few of days of cramming what you need to pass the exams with no consideration for whether you can do the job later on.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 19, 2015 at 8:32 am
GilaMonster (6/19/2015)
Boot camps are typically designed to get you to pass the exams, not learn the material. They're a few of days of cramming what you need to pass the exams with no consideration for whether you can do the job later on.
Thanks for the reply Gail. I understand what you're saying and I guess I expected as much from this. Of course, I would LOVE to actually be an expert in this field -- that is my real goal. Employers may or may not want the certifications I am seeking, although I am told some require them.
So, I have tentatively signed up at this point to go to this in October, which leaves me nearly 4 months to actually learn this material. This is what I have accomplished thus far, other than my day to day experience:
-- Completed the Pluralsight course "SQL Server Querying (70-461) Part 1" taught by Christopher Harrison
-- Completed the Pluralsight course "SQL Server Querying (70-461) Part 2" taught by Christopher Harrison
-- Completed the Pluralsight course "SQL Server 2012 Database Administration (70-462) Part 1" taught by Sean McCown
-- Completed the Pluralsight course "SQL Server 2012 Database Administration (70-462) Part 2" taught by Sean McCown
-- In Progress with Pluralsight course "SQL Server 2012 Database Administration (70-462) Part 3" taught by Sean McCown
Even though they SAY the Exam Number, I'm not sure if these cover the subject enough to just go test or not. I HAVE learned a lot of stuff going through these courses though. I have a somewhat available server instance to try things out on, although not complete carte blanche there, which is limiting for me.
So then, until October, what would you suggest that I do so that I am actually up to speed on all things SQL 2012-14? I am willing to do the work, and I am willing to spend the time and the coin because I am 56 and bored as hell doing what I am doing right now anyway, so I want more out of my career than this. I believe in striking while the iron is hot, and right now -- it's glowing! So any advice, ideas, whatever is welcomeed and appreciated.
June 19, 2015 at 8:40 am
If you are considering dropping 6k, then you can spend a lot less and get a lot more.
Buy all three Microsoft Toolkit books for the exams, you can find them on amazon for <$50 each. I suggest reading through once relatively quickly. Then read the book again taking your time, notes, all the practices. Each book also includes practice questions. They may not be exactly like the exam questions, but its a good start. Make sure you can answer and understand each one. Buy developer edition $50 or less, practice everything you don't understand. I was going to suggest Pluralsight, but you already tackled that. There are some decent practice websites out there that cost a bit, but again, a lot less than 6k. I've used Measureup for Security+ and it was invaluable. The question formats were very similar to the actual test format for that test at least.
Finally, make sure you register for a second shot for each test. Microsoft has promotions for free retakes fairly regularly. If you have never taken a certification test, I believe it's a must. I barely failed the 2008 cert test the first time, but passed with flying colors on my free retake a few weeks later once I knew what to expect and what to brush up on.
Learn the material by studying overtime, it will do you much more good than a 1 week, excessively expensive cram session. I've yet to see an employer that requires a cert, some prefer them, but many just want to know you have the experience and knowledge to do the job.
June 19, 2015 at 8:53 am
SqlSanctum (6/19/2015)
If you are considering dropping 6k, then you can spend a lot less and get a lot more.Buy all three Microsoft Toolkit books for the exams, you can find them on amazon for <$50 each. I suggest reading through once relatively quickly. Then read the book again taking your time, notes, all the practices. Each book also includes practice questions. They may not be exactly like the exam questions, but its a good start. Make sure you can answer and understand each one. Buy developer edition $50 or less, practice everything you don't understand. I was going to suggest Pluralsight, but you already tackled that. There are some decent practice websites out there that cost a bit, but again, a lot less than 6k. I've used Measureup for Security+ and it was invaluable. The question formats were very similar to the actual test format for that test at least.
Finally, make sure you register for a second shot for each test. Microsoft has promotions for free retakes fairly regularly. If you have never taken a certification test, I believe it's a must. I barely failed the 2008 cert test the first time, but passed with flying colors on my free retake a few weeks later once I knew what to expect and what to brush up on.
Learn the material by studying overtime, it will do you much more good than a 1 week, excessively expensive cram session. I've yet to see an employer that requires a cert, some prefer them, but many just want to know you have the experience and knowledge to do the job.
I have taken cert tests before actually, including current cert on Security+ from CompTia and a now useless certification in Microsoft Visual Basic 6 back in the day.
I thought a lot about going the study guide route, and I may yet. The place I preregistered for does not actually require me to pay so I have just told them I am interested at this point. As I said in my reply to GilaMonster, my real goal is expert status with certification. I don't want just a piece of paper that has no real backing to it in practice.
You say the developer version of SQL Server is @ $50USD? That seems like a player, and I do have a computer at home that is primarily a music recording computer. I got past my VB exam with books + experience and passed first time and I could probably still code in it today if I had too. By contrast, I got my original Security+ cert by taking a week long "intensive" class, and that test was to me hard as hell and I can barely remember any of it.
This is why I asked the question to begin with, because I want to know what my peers are doing to get ahead. It is important to me.
June 19, 2015 at 9:28 am
I have taken cert tests before actually, including current cert on Security+ from CompTia and a now useless certification in Microsoft Visual Basic 6 back in the day.
I thought a lot about going the study guide route, and I may yet. The place I preregistered for does not actually require me to pay so I have just told them I am interested at this point. As I said in my reply to GilaMonster, my real goal is expert status with certification. I don't want just a piece of paper that has no real backing to it in practice.
You say the developer version of SQL Server is @ $50USD? That seems like a player, and I do have a computer at home that is primarily a music recording computer. I got past my VB exam with books + experience and passed first time and I could probably still code in it today if I had too. By contrast, I got my original Security+ cert by taking a week long "intensive" class, and that test was to me hard as hell and I can barely remember any of it.
This is why I asked the question to begin with, because I want to know what my peers are doing to get ahead. It is important to me.
Ah, I didn't realize you have taken certs before. Then you already know what you are getting into, at least somewhat. I'd get the study guides. They should only cost you a total of $150 or so, depending on where you get them, and they will be a lasting resource. You could pick up pdf versions for even cheaper probably.
I just tried to provide you a link to 2012 Developer...but amazon and newegg no longer have it. I couldn't find a way to purchase it anywhere after searching for a few minutes. I have it through an MSDN subscription. 2014 is available for ~$50. That would be similar to 2012 and let you practice better than nothing. It's probably just as hard to find the 2012 Evaluation Edition now, too.
I think the general answer you'll get from anyone is practice and more practice. Whatever way works best for you to learn though. I found reading and rereading helped most for me, lots and lots of practice questions, and time. I took my sweet time reading 1 chapter a day with the intent to let it sink in, so it took a few months.
June 19, 2015 at 11:18 am
SqlSanctum (6/19/2015)
I have taken cert tests before actually, including current cert on Security+ from CompTia and a now useless certification in Microsoft Visual Basic 6 back in the day.
I thought a lot about going the study guide route, and I may yet. The place I preregistered for does not actually require me to pay so I have just told them I am interested at this point. As I said in my reply to GilaMonster, my real goal is expert status with certification. I don't want just a piece of paper that has no real backing to it in practice.
You say the developer version of SQL Server is @ $50USD? That seems like a player, and I do have a computer at home that is primarily a music recording computer. I got past my VB exam with books + experience and passed first time and I could probably still code in it today if I had too. By contrast, I got my original Security+ cert by taking a week long "intensive" class, and that test was to me hard as hell and I can barely remember any of it.
This is why I asked the question to begin with, because I want to know what my peers are doing to get ahead. It is important to me.
Ah, I didn't realize you have taken certs before. Then you already know what you are getting into, at least somewhat. I'd get the study guides. They should only cost you a total of $150 or so, depending on where you get them, and they will be a lasting resource. You could pick up pdf versions for even cheaper probably.
I just tried to provide you a link to 2012 Developer...but amazon and newegg no longer have it. I couldn't find a way to purchase it anywhere after searching for a few minutes. I have it through an MSDN subscription. 2014 is available for ~$50. That would be similar to 2012 and let you practice better than nothing. It's probably just as hard to find the 2012 Evaluation Edition now, too.
I think the general answer you'll get from anyone is practice and more practice. Whatever way works best for you to learn though. I found reading and rereading helped most for me, lots and lots of practice questions, and time. I took my sweet time reading 1 chapter a day with the intent to let it sink in, so it took a few months.
It turns out I can get a copy of SQL Server 2014 Developer fairly easy. I think I'll get some guides and dig my heels in as you did. I've done it before, and been too lazy too long. Are the Microsoft Press books still around and the best for studying as they once were?
June 19, 2015 at 12:16 pm
It turns out I can get a copy of SQL Server 2014 Developer fairly easy. I think I'll get some guides and dig my heels in as you did. I've done it before, and been too lazy too long. Are the Microsoft Press books still around and the best for studying as they once were?
Yes, the Microsoft Press Toolkits are probably the best investment you can make for studying for a certification. I think any method that might be quicker or easier would probably backfire on you in the end by being memorization instead of learning.
http://www.amazon.com/Training-70-461-Querying-Microsoft-Server/dp/0735666059
I think they have also updated the 2012 exam to include some pieces of 2014...though I'm not sure. I know they did that with 2008R2.
June 19, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Thank you both for the help, ideas and guidance! :w00t:
June 21, 2015 at 10:40 am
Siberian Khatru (6/19/2015)
I would LOVE to actually be an expert in this field -- that is my real goal.
You become an 'expert' by studying, trying, reading, practicing and making mistakes, not by spending a week cramming facts into your head, and not by writing exams.
You may note how few certs I have listed in my sig here. Yes, I have them, I just don't care any longer. I've seen enough people who crammed to pass exams but were useless on the job.
Employers may or may not want the certifications I am seeking, although I am told some require them.
Sure, but I can tell you one thing they don't want: A person who has certs and no clue how to do the job.
Save yourself $6k and spend your time studying, practising and reading. If you fail the exam first time, so be it, it's not the end of the world.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 22, 2015 at 9:05 am
GilaMonster (6/21/2015)
Siberian Khatru (6/19/2015)
I would LOVE to actually be an expert in this field -- that is my real goal.You become an 'expert' by studying, trying, reading, practicing and making mistakes, not by spending a week cramming facts into your head, and not by writing exams.
You may note how few certs I have listed in my sig here. Yes, I have them, I just don't care any longer. I've seen enough people who crammed to pass exams but were useless on the job.
Employers may or may not want the certifications I am seeking, although I am told some require them.
Sure, but I can tell you one thing they don't want: A person who has certs and no clue how to do the job.
Save yourself $6k and spend your time studying, practising and reading. If you fail the exam first time, so be it, it's not the end of the world.
It's probably in the way I phrased the original questions about certifying in SQL, but I do realize what your saying here is absolutely true. I have been using and learning SQL since version 6.0 actually, but unfortunately my present job not only doesn't need the more advanced features of SQL Server such as SSIS, SSAS, Replication, Log Shipping etc -- they actively prevent/discourage their usage at all. Now, in a prior job I did a LOT of work using what was then called Data Transformation Services (DTS) using SQL 7/2000 at a logistics firm, but I realize that SSIS has expanded on that so much as to barely resemble to VB Script based facility it once was. We do use SSRS here to some extent, but it is rudimentary and doesn't really touch on it's capabilities as a Business Intelligence platform.
Since I would like to advance and possibly leave here one day soon to travel as a freelance consultant, my only option then becomes getting myself a dedicated laptop, installing SQL Server 2012/14 Developer Edition and getting the certification guides and truly learning how the functionality that is closed to me at work operates and so forth. That, plus PluralSight coursework and eventual certification seem my best path forward toward not only having the fancy letters in my signature, but more importantly the backing knowledge to do the things that ought be expected of the people who have them there.
Thanks again folks.
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