Best DB advice - very basic and general

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Best DB advice - very basic and general

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tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 1

Sue_H - Wednesday, October 25, 2017 3:08 PM
tommyleo - Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:08 PM
There is the free community edition of MySQL. The one you attached is for an Oracle supported version. Community Edition is supported using forums.
Depending on the size you need, SQL Server Express may also be an option. It's free but has a size limit for the database at 10 GB. An advantage of that is you can upgrade to one of the paid versions of SQL Server when you grow (I said when, not if).
Here is a link for information on SQL Express:
SQL Server 2017 Express edition
Another thing you may want to consider for some sharing of documents is using one of the free apps for this - again with size limits for the free subscriptions. They also have different payment tiers which allow more storage. Some platforms for that would be OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox. There are a lot of articles comparing those three - you can just search on:
dropbox vs google drive vs onedrive
Here is a link to one of the articles comparing the three:
Dropbox vs. Google Drive vs. OneDrive: 4 Things to Consider when Making Your Choice
And one other consideration - A poorly conceived database will likely cost more to fix than having someone experienced come in and help you out a bit to get started.
Sue

Hi Sue!

Thanks! The information that you offered is really helpful.

Firstly thank you for saying "when" instead of 'if', I appreciated it! And, yes, we are aware that it will cost way more to fix later if we start badly now. Like in medicine, preventing is better than curing. But today we cannot invest and so we're left only with the option of "nothing now" or "bad now + pay way more later on to fix the bad now".

Today we use OneDrive to save and share contracts, offers, product specifications and so forth but we have difficulty in locating information. For example... let's say that we receive advise that a Gasoil ULSD 10ppm shipment is becoming available. We now need to find all past contracts, invitations to tender, product specificatoins, letters, emails, etc, that contain one or some of the words Gasoil, ULSD, 10ppm, FOB, Genoa and Italy. We want to store these documents in the database. Of course the database will also have to contain records that we create starting from input forms. I am thinking of records for sellers, producers, buyers, intermediaries, banks, shipping companies, products, etc., etc.

Looking Here it seems that the free version will not offer searcheable text documents as pdf, doc, jpg, etc and so it looks like we need the "SQL Server 2017 Express with Advanced Services". And, is this the free version of mySQL that you mentioned? Does this version offer text search in documents?

FridayNightGiant SSCertifiable Points: 7151 More actions · Answer 2

tommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PM
Hi Sue!
Thanks! The information that you offered is really helpful.
Firstly thank you for saying "when" instead of 'if', I appreciated it! And, yes, we are aware that it will cost way more to fix later if we start badly now. Like in medicine, preventing is better than curing. But today we cannot invest and so we're left only with the option of "nothing now" or "bad now + pay way more later on to fix the bad now".
Today we use OneDrive to save and share contracts, offers, product specifications and so forth but we have difficulty in locating information. For example... let's say that we receive advise that a Gasoil ULSD 10ppm shipment is becoming available. We now need to find all past contracts, invitations to tender, product specificatoins, letters, emails, etc, that contain one or some of the words Gasoil, ULSD, 10ppm, FOB, Genoa and Italy. We want to store these documents in the database. Of course the database will also have to contain records that we create starting from input forms. I am thinking of records for sellers, producers, buyers, intermediaries, banks, shipping companies, products, etc., etc.
Looking Here it seems that the free version will not offer searcheable text documents as pdf, doc, jpg, etc and so it looks like we need the "SQL Server 2017 Express with Advanced Services". And, is this the free version of mySQL that you mentioned? Does this version offer text search in documents?

You keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.

I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.

Grant Fritchey SSC Guru Points: 398694 More actions · Answer 3

I'm a little late to the discussion, so sorry if this is not useful.

It sounds little like you're trying to get something decent, but at no cost. Within IT, that's going to be tough. Flat out. Postgres is free, but there's a pretty high learning curve to it and support may be very problematic. However, the price is right.

Personally, I'd suggest you look at Azure (or AWS) and a platform-based service like Azure SQL Database. It's not going to be free. Not even close. However, what you do get for the money is a lot of stuff that you're not ready to provide yet, backups, maintenance, tuning, monitoring. It's all built in. You can just focus on creating a database and the services necessary. Most of the rest is taken care of. However, again, it ain't free.

Free? Go for postgres. Assuming that a structured, relational database is the right way to go (and it sounds like it is). You can get it here. Otherwise, you can look to Azure. You can keep the costs pretty low. Bottom tier database (limited in size & performance) will only cost $120/year. Go to portal.azure.com

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt

Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

Grant Fritchey SSC Guru Points: 398694 More actions · Answer 4

FridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PM
tommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PM
Hi Sue!
Thanks! The information that you offered is really helpful.
Firstly thank you for saying "when" instead of 'if', I appreciated it! And, yes, we are aware that it will cost way more to fix later if we start badly now. Like in medicine, preventing is better than curing. But today we cannot invest and so we're left only with the option of "nothing now" or "bad now + pay way more later on to fix the bad now".
Today we use OneDrive to save and share contracts, offers, product specifications and so forth but we have difficulty in locating information. For example... let's say that we receive advise that a Gasoil ULSD 10ppm shipment is becoming available. We now need to find all past contracts, invitations to tender, product specificatoins, letters, emails, etc, that contain one or some of the words Gasoil, ULSD, 10ppm, FOB, Genoa and Italy. We want to store these documents in the database. Of course the database will also have to contain records that we create starting from input forms. I am thinking of records for sellers, producers, buyers, intermediaries, banks, shipping companies, products, etc., etc.
Looking Here it seems that the free version will not offer searcheable text documents as pdf, doc, jpg, etc and so it looks like we need the "SQL Server 2017 Express with Advanced Services". And, is this the free version of mySQL that you mentioned? Does this version offer text search in documents?
You keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.
I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.

This does make sense. In a buy vs. build scenario, buying is frequently a superior choice for people who have no (or limited) technical abilities in-house.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt

Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

xsevensinzx One Orange Chip Points: 25560 More actions · Answer 5

I seconded PostgreSQL as one of the best free options and has many free tools like pgAdmin. It also has great support for clustering for high availability and parallelizing queries if you need to scale out rather than constantly trying to scale up. It also installs fine on Windows, bust most love it as replacement for MySQL on their Linux stacks. It's especially strong when you get to bigger datasets and even for OLAP (reporting purposes) as opposed to OLTP scenarios. This is why it's used for MPP solutions like with Redshift and one of the open sourced data warehousing solutions GreenPlum.

pgAdmin

tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 6

FridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PM

tommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PM

You keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.

I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.

Regarding forms: how do users input data in a database? I thought there are masks, like on websites, that ask you to input values... no? Am I missing something? I imagine that a database will have such masks... I apologize but I am not familiar with the topic.

Perhaps, my original question was poorly written: I am very interested in packaged DB/programmes! I prefer if I can find a programme that can do what I need without having to create a new database from scratch. I will look into this "Salesforce".

tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 7

Grant Fritchey - Friday, October 27, 2017 10:09 AM
I'm a little late to the discussion, so sorry if this is not useful.
It sounds little like you're trying to get something decent, but at no cost. Within IT, that's going to be tough. Flat out. Postgres is free, but there's a pretty high learning curve to it and support may be very problematic. However, the price is right.
Personally, I'd suggest you look at Azure (or AWS) and a platform-based service like Azure SQL Database. It's not going to be free. Not even close. However, what you do get for the money is a lot of stuff that you're not ready to provide yet, backups, maintenance, tuning, monitoring. It's all built in. You can just focus on creating a database and the services necessary. Most of the rest is taken care of. However, again, it ain't free.
Free? Go for postgres. Assuming that a structured, relational database is the right way to go (and it sounds like it is). You can get it here. Otherwise, you can look to Azure. You can keep the costs pretty low. Bottom tier database (limited in size & performance) will only cost $120/year. Go to portal.azure.com

Thank you. Your advice was not late and we are looking at the database that you reccommended. It was exactly the kind of reply that we were looking for although all other replies too were extremely important as they opened our eyes to the challenge.

After Sue and others' advice we are also considering Upwork or other platforms where too hire at low cost a freelaancer.

The real problem is with the Upwork platform itself, not the freelancers... we had 2 terrible experiences with Upwork (E-lance first and then Upwork) because they refuse to action freelancers even when there is evidence of wrongdoing. I had to write to the California Attorney General, Consumers desk and to BBB...

Does anyone have positive experiences with other platforms where I might hire freelancers?

tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 8

xsevensinzx - Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:57 AM
I seconded PostgreSQL as one of the best free options and has many free tools like pgAdmin. It also has great support for clustering for high availability and parallelizing queries if you need to scale out rather than constantly trying to scale up. It also installs fine on Windows, bust most love it as replacement for MySQL on their Linux stacks. It's especially strong when you get to bigger datasets and even for OLAP (reporting purposes) as opposed to OLTP scenarios. This is why it's used for MPP solutions like with Redshift and one of the open sourced data warehousing solutions GreenPlum.
pgAdmin

Thank you for offering what must be very good insight in this instrument but the lexicon that you used flew right over my head... I understood little. I guess you meant that it is appropriate for my needs. Thank you for helping. I appreciated it.

xsevensinzx One Orange Chip Points: 25560 More actions · Answer 9

tommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:51 AM
xsevensinzx - Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:57 AM
I seconded PostgreSQL as one of the best free options and has many free tools like pgAdmin. It also has great support for clustering for high availability and parallelizing queries if you need to scale out rather than constantly trying to scale up. It also installs fine on Windows, bust most love it as replacement for MySQL on their Linux stacks. It's especially strong when you get to bigger datasets and even for OLAP (reporting purposes) as opposed to OLTP scenarios. This is why it's used for MPP solutions like with Redshift and one of the open sourced data warehousing solutions GreenPlum.
pgAdmin
Thank you for offering what must be very good insight in this instrument but the lexicon that you used flew right over my head... I understood little. I guess you meant that it is appropriate for my needs. Thank you for helping. I appreciated it.

No worries! I was trying to say if there was a decision between using MySQL or another database that was not expensive or open source, then I would investigate using PostgreSQL in replace of MySQL. It's free/open source and has greater capability to scale with the business over what MySQL may be able to offer. Both are offered in Azure and or Amazon cloud services.

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 10

Just understand that nothing is ever really free. There are costs involved even if you are paying for some of the software.

Sue_H SSC Guru Points: 90860 More actions · Answer 11

I had a great response earlier but lost the post. So keep in mind, that one was great.

One of the things I just thought of is that maybe we are all getting ahead of ourselves and focusing on the database. It sounds like you are looking more for a packaged solution of some sort. I would think in that case, what you select can dictate what database is used. And subsequently, what skill sets you may need to hire. Or maybe you also need to get some help with selecting some software, platform for your business. Finding the right platform and implementing that platform can often be different skill sets.
ZZartin mentioned awhile back about using open source document management software and that's not a bad place to start looking. Have you searched for any of those and start looking over them to see if it meets your needs? That might be a better place to start. Not definitely, just a thought.
I think it could be worth the effort to search on some of those and see if it's going to meet your needs, if it's a realistic option, etc. I just searched on: open source dms
I got a lot of hits as well as some lists of top 5, top nn type of things for open source document management systems.
I don't think it's likely that you will find some ideal free software to do everything you want so you may want to take more time to define what is truly needed now but also keep in mind what you need in the future. What is the critical need right now for you all to move forward with the business. There will always be a lot of "nice to haves" even if you paid for the most expensive software. As already mentioned a few times, TINSTAAFL so that's important to keep in perspective.

Sue

xsevensinzx One Orange Chip Points: 25560 More actions · Answer 12

Lynn Pettis - Monday, October 30, 2017 1:18 PM
Just understand that nothing is ever really free. There are costs involved even if you are paying for some of the software.

Very valid point. 🙂

Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 13

tommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:32 AM

FridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PM
tommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PM
You keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.
I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.

Regarding forms: how do users input data in a database? I thought there are masks, like on websites, that ask you to input values... no? Am I missing something? I imagine that a database will have such masks... I apologize but I am not familiar with the topic.

You mean forms, where users enter and view data?
No, databases are data storage. They have interfaces, but they're not the type that your users can use, unless they're all software developers.

I would advice that you look at of-the-shelf applications, because if your try and develop it yourself, it's going to cost a lot, in time, in money and in future problems

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 14

xsevensinzx - Monday, October 30, 2017 12:58 PM
tommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:51 AM
xsevensinzx - Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:57 AM
I seconded PostgreSQL as one of the best free options and has many free tools like pgAdmin. It also has great support for clustering for high availability and parallelizing queries if you need to scale out rather than constantly trying to scale up. It also installs fine on Windows, bust most love it as replacement for MySQL on their Linux stacks. It's especially strong when you get to bigger datasets and even for OLAP (reporting purposes) as opposed to OLTP scenarios. This is why it's used for MPP solutions like with Redshift and one of the open sourced data warehousing solutions GreenPlum.
pgAdmin
Thank you for offering what must be very good insight in this instrument but the lexicon that you used flew right over my head... I understood little. I guess you meant that it is appropriate for my needs. Thank you for helping. I appreciated it.
No worries! I was trying to say if there was a decision between using MySQL or another database that was not expensive or open source, then I would investigate using PostgreSQL in replace of MySQL. It's free/open source and has greater capability to scale with the business over what MySQL may be able to offer. Both are offered in Azure and or Amazon cloud services.

I think that we have come to the conclusion to hire someone over an internet freelancer platform, if we can find someone competitive enough. If we can find someone we will let them chose the DB as they will be more expert than us.

If we cannot find someone competitive I will have to try myself. I will try this PostgresSQL or the mySQL. Someone (Sue) mentioned that my SQL was an opensource and free but I cannot find a link to a free version. Can you link me to a free mySQL page, please?

tommyleo SSC Veteran Points: 223 More actions · Answer 15

Lynn Pettis - Monday, October 30, 2017 1:18 PM
Just understand that nothing is ever really free. There are costs involved even if you are paying for some of the software.

I understand this very well and, of course, you are right.

I tried to explain 4 or 5 times, in this thread, that there are financial constraints that cannot be expanded so we are left with 2 options:
A) NOT having ANY DB
B) Having a crappy one

When we will have sufficient resources we will create a better DB or fix this one.

We all have to start somewhere in life and in business: refusing to start a business, alltogether, because there are limited resources, is not in our character. We try to allocate the limited resources best we can. If we are smart we will, eventually, generate revenue and improve/upgrade our DB resources. If we are not smart we will fail. DB is certainly NOT our priority or our most vital business tool as we have done egregiously without one for 2 years. So we allocate resources as best we can. The odds of having a DB seem to be against us, but we still want to try.

I hope that this clarifies the economic aspect of this thread.