November 17, 2010 at 6:56 am
From what I've seen, the more insular a developer is, the more likely they are to overestimate their expertise. A college student, hobbyist, or even a developer at a small company who maintains a single application may think they are a hot shot when it comes to SQL and database administration, but when they find themselves in the outside world and down in the trenches of a big project with a tight deadline, they soon discover how much they don't know compared to a broader groups of peers. I participate in the technical evaluations of prospective hires, and I frequently see resumes where someone rates themselves as a 10 or Expert level, but then during the interview they fall flat when it comes to answering what I consider very general questions about 3rd normal form, transactions, profiling execution plans, or constructing a SQL statment that involves aggregation or ranking.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 17, 2010 at 7:55 am
There is no such thing as a 10 in anything IMHO, particularly as fast as SQL Server is changing these days. If someone tells me that in an interview my BS meter will go through the roof and they will not get hired! 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
November 17, 2010 at 8:12 am
I tend to agree with Travis. The product changes so quickly, even the people that write the code might not be tens in another version because it changes regularly.
To me the "10" if you rate yourself a ten, even if you continue to learn, you're overestimating the level of experience you have. There are too many ways the technology can be used to think you know it all about even one subsystem, like T-SQL or SSIS.
I think I'm a 4-6 in most areas. I understand them, can apply them, know when I'm out of my league, and I know I have a lot left to learn.
November 17, 2010 at 8:12 am
blandry (11/17/2010)
After all, if you want a great and recent historical example of "10's" who thought they "knew" something - look at Wall Street. They "knew" the party would never end, and everyone would get insanely rich. NOT!!!
I like this example. Let me add another example from 1998, when two Nobel Prize winners were on board of directors of Long-Term Capital Management, which crashed spectacularly. ("Board of directors members included Myron Scholes and Robert C. Merton, who shared the 1997 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences... in 1998 it lost $4.6 billion in less than four months")
November 17, 2010 at 8:19 am
There is a problem out there where I think the intelligent people who pursue a solution has been turned over to the people who are interested in making money.
Our career field attracts people who are not interested in solving problems or maintaining a complex systems they're interested only in making money that's associated with the complex dealings. This creates a ambiance of arrogance, many think they've accomplish something single handed and gladly take the credit.
I definitely think most of us earn our paycheck but when it's done with interest of the system and the customer, not to feed arrogance and a pocket book. We work with systems that most can't comprehend so the earnings are fair, but too often people are interested more in the money than trying to comprehend the situation at hand.
I know I didn't code infrastructure or back-end to SQL Server and no one person did it alone. So I can't ever say I know everything. Through diligence and hard work can I maintain, not through a closed mind and supposed complete knowledge.
Knowledge is not a closed loop, especially in a evolving system.
P.S. I dislike the terms Genius and Guru too. A technical genius usually doesn't work behind a counter at a retail shop...they may well be on their way, but over inflating something too early usually does more damage than good.
November 17, 2010 at 8:24 am
blandry (11/17/2010)
One of the greatest pieces of advice my Father ever passed down to my brothers, sisters and I was this..."The power in knowledge lies NOT in what you think you know, but what you don't know because once you think you know something, you stop learning."
In my business career I have seen, time and time again, the impact of this statement. I have seen the arrogance of those who presume they know things, only to have their business careers shattered because they chose to stop learning. And in technology, things move and change quickly - thats why I would not hire anyone who presumes themselves to be a 10, or that they "know" most everything.
Give me a hungry and capable 5,6, or 7 with some ambition, and I will show you a person who will exceed expectations, become motivated by their own achievements, and continue to learn throughout their careers.
After all, if you want a great and recent historical example of "10's" who thought they "knew" something - look at Wall Street. They "knew" the party would never end, and everyone would get insanely rich. NOT!!!
Blandry, this reminds me of a Bertrand Russell quote - one of the best quotes ever, in my book:
William James used to preach the 'will to believe'. For my part, I should wish to preach the 'will to doubt.' … What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite.
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Stephen Hawking
November 17, 2010 at 10:11 am
When you ask a wealthy person if they are rich, you might get the reply "Compared to who?," implying that it is a relative question. After all, most are not wealthy compared to Mr. Gates.
When someone asks me to rate my skills, I think it's tempting to ask the same thing, "compared to who?" In a way, it is sidestepping the question. But at the same time, there are many who learn one method of working and who are content to use it as long as it works. For me, at least I'm willing to learn new ways and trying to improve. So compared to them, a person like me may be an 8 or so.
But, on the other hand, if I compare myself with most of the people who regularly answer questions on this site, I'm way down to maybe a 2!
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Stephen Hawking
November 17, 2010 at 10:31 am
I know that I have a broad set of knowledge about what SQL Server can do, but not a very deep set of skills in any one area.
I believe a lot of us fall into that category, Steve. We're generalists. It does keep us out of hot water, though, when we go banging around trying to figure something out.
I don't believe you can rate someone overall in SQL Server, for all the complexity discussed above. I still feel our industry as a whole approaches the hiring and using of personel poorly. It shouldn't be a rating in SQL Server. It should be a rating in SQL Server tasks.
And, for the record, I'm a 9.9 repeating. I'm just that good. Look at my stupid mistakes I post here, even those are almost perfect. 😀
To the comment above about people getting involved in the field interested more in money than in problem solving... um... damn straight. I can problem solve in many careers. Oil Well Capping, Skydiving instructor (talk about being under the gun!), Wreck Diver, Bounty Hunter... all careers involving problem solving. This one pays reasonably well, keeps me dry, mistakes only cost money, and I get home at a reasonable hour usually.
There is only one purpose to work, that's to make money. If you can enjoy what you do while you do it, even better.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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November 17, 2010 at 10:41 am
I'm not a 10 in any area of SQL Server, nor in the rest of my life. My current mission is to migrate to a new job which allows me to focus on the areas of SQL Server that I wish to become expert in.
When you're forced to be a generalist, it becomes difficult to impossible to gain a really deep skill set in any one area.
It's all about focus. That being said, I'll still never be a 10 in anything no matter how much I learn/practice.
November 17, 2010 at 10:58 am
Is there a scale?
In the 20+ I've been playing with computers (and being a small shop generalist), I've found that I know even less than when I started.
Some days I'm not even sure I know how to ask the right questions.
And yet there still has to be a better way to communicate (information).
So I'll keep plugging 🙂
-- Optimist with experience and still learning
November 17, 2010 at 10:59 am
The best DBA is the one who can goolge the fastest.
November 17, 2010 at 11:02 am
Lynn Pettis (11/17/2010)
Anyone who claims to be a 10, imho, is either a liar or too full of himself (or herself) as it is simple arrogance.
I think this depends. If you're talking about specific areas, then Paul Randal is a 10 on DBCC and the storage engine. He wrote the bloody thing. If we are talking general SQL Server knowledge, which you consider everything that makes up SQL Server now:
- Database Engine (including CLR, service broker, replication, etc.)
- Analysis Services
- Integration Services
- Reporting Services
I would say anyone putting themselves above a 7 is likely not thinking with a clear head.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
November 17, 2010 at 11:04 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/17/2010)
I tend to agree with Travis. The product changes so quickly, even the people that write the code might not be tens in another version because it changes regularly.To me the "10" if you rate yourself a ten, even if you continue to learn, you're overestimating the level of experience you have. There are too many ways the technology can be used to think you know it all about even one subsystem, like T-SQL or SSIS.
I think I'm a 4-6 in most areas. I understand them, can apply them, know when I'm out of my league, and I know I have a lot left to learn.
This is how I see myself, with the strongest rating in security (obviously). There is so much to learn, even in the core engine.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
November 17, 2010 at 11:10 am
Ed Salva (11/17/2010)
Is there a scale?In the 20+ I've been playing with computers (and being a small shop generalist), I've found that I know even less than when I started.
Some days I'm not even sure I know how to ask the right questions.
And yet there still has to be a better way to communicate (information).
So I'll keep plugging 🙂
Well, anyone can Google "sql server and error 1205". An expert is the person who can quickly sift through the results, pick the correct answer, and then implement it before the problem escalates and makes him look incompetent. That takes experience.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 17, 2010 at 11:30 am
Maybe a 5.
When I started out in the IT field, DOS 2.11 was the dominant PC operating system. I learned to do everything in it, including tweaking the UMB from the config file. I might have been close to a 10 then, but as time went on and the whole paradigm shifted, I became less and less able to understand the whole picture. My personal oddysey has taken me to my present position as a SQL Server Data Architect. I've had to specialize to get to this point. I know less about the OS environment, some about the development environment, alot about the database environment, a little about the newest tools. Overall, I'd say I'm a 5.
PS: Steve, thanks for helping to create the SQL Server Database Design and Optimization coursework. It's the only resource that I've found that addresses Exam 70-450. I'm taking the test the day before Thanksgiving.
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